B-1R video

Interesting where V-tail came from?
 

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Super find, flateric!!! :eek: B)
I am just also watching "Future Dogfights" Parts 1-9.
 
Well, actually a load of promo crap I'd say...
 
wow...not even the high quality of the cgi and testosterone-filled script can save this concept.

few questions:
- is 120 nmi the range for AMRAAM? that sounds really high, unless it's the ducted ramjet follow-up
- 20 AMRAAMS mounted externally in multiple carriage will generate on metric s**t-ton of drag. Why not use the internal rotary bay? It may not be a simple modification, but surely it's better than having the missiles out in the open.
-What's with the V-tail? do they really care about broadside RCS? looks more to me like it's there for the cool factor.
-Those B-1's 'd better NEVER get within 100nmi of any fighter, be it a refurbished MiG-21

thanks for sharing the video, it's definitely entertaining!
 
Well I'm going to have go against the grain here and say that I love that B-1R from the clip. And I loved every second of it. Yes, I am a Dale Brown fanboy. :p
 
Well, if Boeing cannot sell a new bomber, it will try to make money by rebuilding an old one. I wonder if the R really means "Refurb" or "Retrofit". Is the B-1R meant to be a replacement for the F-111 Aardvark?
 
AeroFranz said:
wow...not even the high quality of the cgi and testosterone-filled script can save this concept.

few questions:
- is 120 nmi the range for AMRAAM? that sounds really high, unless it's the ducted ramjet follow-up
- 20 AMRAAMS mounted externally in multiple carriage will generate on metric s**t-ton of drag. Why not use the internal rotary bay? It may not be a simple modification, but surely it's better than having the missiles out in the open.
-What's with the V-tail? do they really care about broadside RCS? looks more to me like it's there for the cool factor.
-Those B-1's 'd better NEVER get within 100nmi of any fighter, be it a refurbished MiG-21

thanks for sharing the video, it's definitely entertaining!
Click to expand...

Actually, the B-1B was originally to carry the ALCM and ACM on external stores. The ACM was fully tested and qualified, but arms control talks stripped the B-1 fleet of their external hardpoints. I can't find photos anywhere on the internet, but the external ACM mounts were pretty unique looking.
Me, I just want to see the B-1B with external stores again. A B-1 with all of those hardpoints loaded with CBUs or JDAMs...... that would ruin any dictator's day.
 
Did anyone else notice that the wings of B-1R and F-22 Raptor were attacking Sukhoi Su-30 "Flanker" aircraft? Was the opposition the Venezuelan Air Force? Russian Air Force? Makes one wonder why they used "Flanker" as the opposition in the CGI animation.
 
Entertaining video, has said above. A bit of propaganda in the process, too.

Looks like the ennemy (whatever it is!) is dumb. He send three dozens fighters, flying straight, at high height.
The pilots are no better! The guy know a bunch of AAMs are coming, and he just "shake" his fighter... one wing down, the other up, to the right... repeat the movement, to the left...

The B-1R looks cool.
 
"Makes one wonder why they used "Flanker" as the opposition"

What else ? ;)

Rafale ? Eurofighter ? The Mig 29 is generally regarded as inferior and
if "old" fighters, like Mig 21 would have been chosen, the reputation of
the Raptor could have been damaged !
At least the Flanker is part of the inventory (or at least could be), of those
nations, that can play the part of the "bad guy".
Maybe they should wear these markings : ;D
 

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Triton said:
Well, if Boeing cannot sell a new bomber, it will try to make money by rebuilding an old one. I wonder if the R really means "Refurb" or "Retrofit". Is the B-1R meant to be a replacement for the F-111 Aardvark?
Click to expand...
The "R" stands for "regional".
Even the concept from bagera3005 has a V-Tail, how did we not noticed that item before?! :-[
 
my comment on Video CGI Script and "blue eye" Comments of People in that video
see picture

had Convair a similar idea with B-58 D ?

The B-1R gonna be a popular fictional Aircraft
 

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fightingirish said:
Triton said:
Well, if Boeing cannot sell a new bomber, it will try to make money by rebuilding an old one. I wonder if the R really means "Refurb" or "Retrofit". Is the B-1R meant to be a replacement for the F-111 Aardvark?
Click to expand...
The "R" stands for "regional".
Even the concept from bagera3005 has a V-Tail, how did we not noticed that item before?! :-[
Click to expand...

Is that a gun under the nose?? Love it! After all, a warplane without a gun is a lot like Paris Hilton: Nice to look at, but ultimately quite useless ;D

Regards,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Denmark
 
Had a good laugh when I saw the video. Long time ago found a reference to "B-1E long range naval escort interceptor" in Squadron B-1 book; there was no description of modifications, pictures, or line-drawing, so just went off on a wild streak and converted the huge 1/48 scale Revell kit into one, complete with V-tail and a rear-mounted rocket engine (leftover 1/144 scale Saturn V F-1) for high-altitude interception. The paint-scheme (all-black with Playboy bunny on tailfins) was a parody, with the A/C on-loan to the DEA for drug-runner interdiction; the tally painted on the nose included several Cessnas and a Concorde shot down by mistake when it was mistaken for a Piper Cub. (Armament was AIM-54 Pheonix mounted on internal rotary launcher.)
 
i m afraid, very afraid

That someone in Pentagon or Congress watch this video
and say "goosh we need a Fleet of those super cool B-1R!"
or someone in foreign country watch this
and say "That future of U.S. Aircombat ! we need that too !"

let see Wat future brings...
 
Hey Skyrocket,

Which Squadron book did you see the B-1E Naval Interceptor. I have the "In Action" book somewhere but I don't remember seeing a reference to that. maybe I'l have to dig it up.

And I'm still in love with the B-1R. Yeah it'd be big waste of money. But what a cool waste of money.
 
Lauge said:
fightingirish said:
Triton said:
Well, if Boeing cannot sell a new bomber, it will try to make money by rebuilding an old one. I wonder if the R really means "Refurb" or "Retrofit". Is the B-1R meant to be a replacement for the F-111 Aardvark?
Click to expand...
The "R" stands for "regional".
Even the concept from bagera3005 has a V-Tail, how did we not noticed that item before?! :-[
Click to expand...

Is that a gun under the nose?? Love it! After all, a warplane without a gun is a lot like Paris Hilton: Nice to look at, but ultimately quite useless ;D

Regards,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Denmark
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's a gun, the GAU-8 to be exact. I tried to tell him to remove it, but he thought it'd be useful... For what, I don't know.
 
Could work... But as said, internal rotary launchers, and a better long range stand-off or air-to-air missile should be better. How about loading them up with AIM-54's... B) B)

BTW, "Not stealthy B-1R"? I always thought the B-1 was designed with low-radar signature and other enhanced stealth capabilities in mind? The engine inlets and an extensive ECM suite specifically.

Speed Mach 2.2? Man... This is not a B-1B upgrade, this is the original B-1A!!
 
Hey, is it me or does anyone else notice some kind of ventral strake on the engine nacelle on Bagera's B-1R? What's that all about?

Moonbat
 
Jemiba said:
"Makes one wonder why they used "Flanker" as the opposition"

What else ? ;)

Rafale ? Eurofighter ? The Mig 29 is generally regarded as inferior and
if "old" fighters, like Mig 21 would have been chosen, the reputation of
the Raptor could have been damaged !
At least the Flanker is part of the inventory (or at least could be), of those
nations, that can play the part of the "bad guy".
Maybe they should wear these markings : ;D
Click to expand...

LOL, love it. They need to be careful with this sort of thing considering that the largest operators of "Flanker" are the People's Liberation Army Air Force and the Indian Air Force. We can't piss off India or we would loose our technical support. ;D

Remko said:
Could work... But as said, internal rotary launchers, and a better long range stand-off or air-to-air missile should be better. How about loading them up with AIM-54's... B) B)

BTW, "Not stealthy B-1R"? I always thought the B-1 was designed with low-radar signature and other enhanced stealth capabilities in mind? The engine inlets and an extensive ECM suite specifically.

Speed Mach 2.2? Man... This is not a B-1B upgrade, this is the original B-1A!!
Click to expand...

That was my thinking too.
 
"One proposed solution is the B-1R, essentially a B-1B powered by four Pratt & Whitney F119s, which are also
used on the F/A-22 Raptor. White said that the B-1B has the range and payload for the mission but with a few
tweaks its capabilities would be greatly enhanced. “In many ways, we would be restoring the original capabilities
envisioned in the B-1A program, such as Mach 2 speeds,” said White. Additional enhancements would include networkcentric
capabilities, air-to-air engagement, active electronically-scanned array radar, improved defensive systems, and
opening up existing external hard points for conventional weapons." - from Boeing's "All Systems Go"
 
Eurofighter!

there was something with F-22 and "inferior" Eurofighter

a story i hear often
is that a Eurofighter made some Comparison test with F-22 in U.S.
and got the "Stealth" F-22 on his Radar all the time

urban legend or real facts ?
 
Archibald said:
Entertaining video, has said above. A bit of propaganda in the process, too.

Looks like the ennemy (whatever it is!) is dumb. He send three dozens fighters, flying straight, at high height.
The pilots are no better! The guy know a bunch of AAMs are coming, and he just "shake" his fighter... one wing down, the other up, to the right... repeat the movement, to the left...
Click to expand...

Jemiba said:
"Makes one wonder why they used "Flanker" as the opposition"

What else ? ;)

Rafale ? Eurofighter ? The Mig 29 is generally regarded as inferior and
if "old" fighters, like Mig 21 would have been chosen, the reputation of
the Raptor could have been damaged !
At least the Flanker is part of the inventory (or at least could be), of those
nations, that can play the part of the "bad guy".
Maybe they should wear these markings : ;D
Click to expand...

This is from "Dogfights of the Future," the last episode of the History Channel show "Dogfights!"

The enemy country is never named, but some people think it's Venezuela or Cuba due to how the scenario unfolds: Sometime early in the next decade, a U.S. passenger aircraft is forced to ditch nearby an enemy shore. A USCG helicopter (with obviously super-duper long-range tanks) is engaged by four Fulcrums (yes, four) and shot down, who are then splashed by a CAP of the four Raptors you see in the video (this is why there's references to the Raptor's "remaining AMRAAMS"). The enemy then sends a crapload of fighters to engage the Raptors, consisting of Su-30s and, yes, Rafales, supposedly chosen because these "widely exported 4.5-generation fighters" represent the most likely and most potent threat to the Raptor.

After the end of this clip, one of the B-1Rs is hit by an AA-12 but limps home, while the Raptors engage four remaining Rafales with AIM-9s. All of the Sukhios were shot down by the long-range, uh, whatever fancy word the narrator said. Which seems rather awfully convenient that the heavier, more advanced aircraft is taken out of the picture.

The scenario ends with the Raptors splashing the Rafales, including one Raptor performing a Cobra. Yes, they do this. It then jumps to the next scenario - I take it all of the passengers of the downed airliner and helicopter drown because they got boring at that point.

There are three other scenarios that are covered in the program, a joint USAF/RAF SEAD mission in a generic Middle Eastern country conducted solely by F-35s "dogfighting" against both MiG-35s and, in effect, SAMs; this scenario is pretty straightforward, though it does employ the use of magically stealthy externally-carried HARMs.

The third scenario involves yet another flight of F-22s, this time escorting a strike package of friendly Rafales. What country the Rafales are from is never stated, but it's stated that the scenario takes place in the South Pacific, so some people think they're supposed to be RNZAF. They're jumped by a flight of Su-30s, once again from an unnamed country but I guess who assume the Rafales are RNZAF automatically think they're supposed to be Malaysian or Indonesian. The Sukhios promptly splash all Rafales (some escort package ::) ) but the Sukhios are splashed by a 767. Yes, a Boeing 767. But I guess it helps when it's got a laser turret :)

The Raptors are then engaged by some Super-SAMs that literally pop out of nowhere and one of them is shot down, the rest engage Su-47s/S-37s, two are shot down, and the narrator mentions that an additional Sukhio and Raptor are splashed off-screen. Then the comm gear on the remaining Raptors goes out as it turns out all USAF space-borne assets had been destroyed by kinetic-kill interceptors.

Then...things get really weird in this last scenario. The USAF launches a space fighter - no, really - to shoot down an enemy space fighter. All they do is line up behind the guy and fire a laser and let the poor bastards burn up in the atmosphere. Really, it kinda sets it up as if whoever launches last wins.

I guess it's the very last episode of the series for a reason.
 
Just call me Ray said:
Archibald said:
Entertaining video, has said above. A bit of propaganda in the process, too.

Looks like the ennemy (whatever it is!) is dumb. He send three dozens fighters, flying straight, at high height.
The pilots are no better! The guy know a bunch of AAMs are coming, and he just "shake" his fighter... one wing down, the other up, to the right... repeat the movement, to the left...
Click to expand...

Jemiba said:
"Makes one wonder why they used "Flanker" as the opposition"

What else ? ;)

Rafale ? Eurofighter ? The Mig 29 is generally regarded as inferior and
if "old" fighters, like Mig 21 would have been chosen, the reputation of
the Raptor could have been damaged !
At least the Flanker is part of the inventory (or at least could be), of those
nations, that can play the part of the "bad guy".
Maybe they should wear these markings : ;D
Click to expand...

This is from "Dogfights of the Future," the last episode of the History Channel show "Dogfights!"

The enemy country is never named, but some people think it's Venezuela or Cuba due to how the scenario unfolds: Sometime early in the next decade, a U.S. passenger aircraft is forced to ditch nearby an enemy shore. A USCG helicopter (with obviously super-duper long-range tanks) is engaged by four Fulcrums (yes, four) and shot down, who are then splashed by a CAP of the four Raptors you see in the video (this is why there's references to the Raptor's "remaining AMRAAMS"). The enemy then sends a crapload of fighters to engage the Raptors, consisting of Su-30s and, yes, Rafales, supposedly chosen because these "widely exported 4.5-generation fighters" represent the most likely and most potent threat to the Raptor.

After the end of this clip, one of the B-1Rs is hit by an AA-12 but limps home, while the Raptors engage four remaining Rafales with AIM-9s. All of the Sukhios were shot down by the long-range, uh, whatever fancy word the narrator said. Which seems rather awfully convenient that the heavier, more advanced aircraft is taken out of the picture.

The scenario ends with the Raptors splashing the Rafales, including one Raptor performing a Cobra. Yes, they do this. It then jumps to the next scenario - I take it all of the passengers of the downed airliner and helicopter drown because they got boring at that point.

There are three other scenarios that are covered in the program, a joint USAF/RAF SEAD mission in a generic Middle Eastern country conducted solely by F-35s "dogfighting" against both MiG-35s and, in effect, SAMs; this scenario is pretty straightforward, though it does employ the use of magically stealthy externally-carried HARMs.

The third scenario involves yet another flight of F-22s, this time escorting a strike package of friendly Rafales. What country the Rafales are from is never stated, but it's stated that the scenario takes place in the South Pacific, so some people think they're supposed to be RNZAF. They're jumped by a flight of Su-30s, once again from an unnamed country but I guess who assume the Rafales are RNZAF automatically think they're supposed to be Malaysian or Indonesian. The Sukhios promptly splash all Rafales (some escort package ::) ) but the Sukhios are splashed by a 767. Yes, a Boeing 767. But I guess it helps when it's got a laser turret :)

The Raptors are then engaged by some Super-SAMs that literally pop out of nowhere and one of them is shot down, the rest engage Su-47s/S-37s, two are shot down, and the narrator mentions that an additional Sukhio and Raptor are splashed off-screen. Then the comm gear on the remaining Raptors goes out as it turns out all USAF space-borne assets had been destroyed by kinetic-kill interceptors.

Then...things get really weird in this last scenario. The USAF launches a space fighter - no, really - to shoot down an enemy space fighter. All they do is line up behind the guy and fire a laser and let the poor bastards burn up in the atmosphere. Really, it kinda sets it up as if whoever launches last wins.

I guess it's the very last episode of the series for a reason.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the additional information. I have seen only two episodes of Dogfight! so far. I would like to see the rest of the episode however "fantastic" it may be.
 
It's all on YouTube.

If you want to watch it legally the entire DVD set is available for purchase at HistoryChannel.com
 
IIRC one of the major unsolved problems in reducing the B-1B's RCS was the huuuge vertical tail, hence the v. They could have at least given it something cooler than an AMRAAM, how about GD/Westinghouse AIM-152 with external guidance pod? Unfortunately the current B-1 would probably run smack dab into McKinley with a full load and wouldn't be much of an EM platform even with the F119s.
 
KJ_Lesnick said:
I didn't know the F-22 had DAS
Click to expand...
It's not. It's a passive suit that comprised mostly of the AN/ALR-94 passive reciever built by BAE (of course, the american branch of BAE giant). It is used to pick up radar signal from enemy target around the area (this thing has an extreme long range of detection) F-35 just takes it a step further with the DAS.

DAS is part of the 2 electro optical sensors system of the f-35. The AN/ALR-94 is not electro-optical. It's just a passive radar signal reciever, part of the EW suit. The f-35 overlaps the EO DAS (i think this is the term to refer to the combination of the DAS and EOTS) with the EW suit to have vastly enhanced situational awareness.

Also, though every aircraft has an EW suit, the revolutionary of the f-22's AN/ALR-94 is its design to spread out along the wings for stealth purpose and its intergration with the f-22's other system, such as the AESA radar. The AN/ALR-94 is noted to be the most sophisticated equipment on the f-22.
 
Be that as it may, I liked Dogfights for the most part. Didn't know it was canceled, let alone this shot in the dark was aired.

Moonbat, the B-1E was a one-line reference in a paragraph about future variants. Like I said, long time ago and haven't picked up the book since then.
 
would the B-1R make more sense as Support fighter for B-1 ?

let me explane

if you got B-1 Bomber to send in airspace with Enemies Fighter
why not use a B-1 as Support aircraft with ECM and missile ?
its fly in front of B-1 group and jammed Enemies Radar or simulate Virtual B-1 as Targets
looks for Enemies, an shot Air-Air Missile for fighters or Air-Ground for SAM

the Russian Bomber had something similar, but no missile on it.
 
B-1 air-to-air armament

Took me a while to remember which book this was in. Gunstons "Warpalnes of the Future" from 1985. A bit of promo artwork (a photo with painted-in bombs and missiles) showing what the B-1A could carry. It seems to suggest that a load of 38 Phoenix missiles was contemplated.
 

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I watched this entire episode when it came out. (History Channel HD is amazing.) I think the F-22s were escorting a strike package of Predator drones, if I recall. I also had a lot of difficulty trying to determine which country A) could afford Rafales, B) is a country France would sell Rafales to, and C) yet be so antagonistic towards the US that it would fire on American planes without provocation.

I liked the series, but this was a pretty weak way to end it. And even in HD, I can't help but notice that the Ace Combat series did a better job with the CGI.
 
funkychinaman said:
I also had a lot of difficulty trying to determine which country A) could afford Rafales, B) is a country France would sell Rafales to, and C) yet be so antagonistic towards the US that it would fire on American planes without provocation.
Click to expand...

I dunno... could be "France."
 
funkychinaman said:
I watched this entire episode when it came out. (History Channel HD is amazing.) I think the F-22s were escorting a strike package of Predator drones, if I recall. I also had a lot of difficulty trying to determine which country A) could afford Rafales, B) is a country France would sell Rafales to, and C) yet be so antagonistic towards the US that it would fire on American planes without provocation.

I liked the series, but this was a pretty weak way to end it. And even in HD, I can't help but notice that the Ace Combat series did a better job with the CGI.
Click to expand...

Would have been interesting if they had the B-1R and the F-22 flying against the planes of Ace Combat. Tonight on Dogfight! the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor and the Boeing B-1R Lancer flies against the Yukikaze Super Sylph FFR-3. ;D

Orionblamblam said:
I dunno... could be "France."
Click to expand...

Possible. Not that I am advocating hostilities between the United States of American and the Republic of France. I would presume that they do play What if... scenarios. As the military says "We don't set policy."
 
Triton said:
Orionblamblam said:
I dunno... could be "France."
Click to expand...

Possible. Not that I am advocating hostilities between the United States of American and the Republic of France. I would presume that they do play What if... scenarios. As the military says "We don't set policy."
Click to expand...

Without getting into politics, I'll simply point out that things can flip around in a hell of a hurry, historically speaking. In 1940, how many people would've thought that Japan, German and the US would be close allies by 1950? In 1950, how many people would have thought that Cuba and the US would be firm enemies within a dozen years? In 1970, how many people would have thought that Iran would be a mortal enemy of the US by 1980? In October of 2001, how many Americans would have thought that in eight years the President would be someone that a large fraction of the populace sees as a "secret Muslim?" Come back 20, 30 years from now and who the hell knows what will be the situation. Could be the US, China and the Empire of Australasia verses the Eurabian Caliphate. Shrug.
 
funkychinaman said:
I watched this entire episode when it came out. (History Channel HD is amazing.) I think the F-22s were escorting a strike package of Predator drones, if I recall.
Click to expand...

I know that there was a Predator-B package in the JSF strike scenario. The narrator said they were being used as a combination SEAD support and decoy mode, though in the scenario they were just used as expendable decoys. Seems like a waste of what's still a high-dollar aircraft to me.

I also had a lot of difficulty trying to determine which country A) could afford Rafales, B) is a country France would sell Rafales to, and C) yet be so antagonistic towards the US that it would fire on American planes without provocation.
Click to expand...

Well, once again the Rafale was there because, as they explained, it was a potent 4.5-generation fighter widely offered for export, so they figured it could happen.
 

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