XP67_Moonbat
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Hughes D-2, D-5 and XF-11
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Re: Hughes D-2
Very interesting find and quite different from the D-2 drawings, which were shown
on the (now defunct) Chandelle site.
The style of the 3-view looks very similar to those, which are known from the german
magazine FlugRevue
Very interesting find and quite different from the D-2 drawings, which were shown
on the (now defunct) Chandelle site.
The style of the 3-view looks very similar to those, which are known from the german
magazine FlugRevue
archipeppe
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Re: Hughes D-2
Nice findings Moonbat!!!
The photos are new, at least for me, but the 3 views are essentially the same published in a past number of the Italian "Aerei nella Storia" magazine.
Nice findings Moonbat!!!
The photos are new, at least for me, but the 3 views are essentially the same published in a past number of the Italian "Aerei nella Storia" magazine.
XP67_Moonbat
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Re: Hughes D-2
I figured it was high time to shed some light this very rare bird. I'm actually surprised I even found pictures at all. I did a Google search a few years back and got zero results.
I did find a couple of sites stating Hughes cast such a veil of secrecy on the project that no photos were said to exist. Even this book stated as much:
http://www.amazon.com/U-S-Experimental-Prototype-Aircraft-Projects/dp/1580071090/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231176158&sr=8-1
But then again....it looks like some photos were out there after all. So here we are.
Moonbat
I figured it was high time to shed some light this very rare bird. I'm actually surprised I even found pictures at all. I did a Google search a few years back and got zero results.
I did find a couple of sites stating Hughes cast such a veil of secrecy on the project that no photos were said to exist. Even this book stated as much:
http://www.amazon.com/U-S-Experimental-Prototype-Aircraft-Projects/dp/1580071090/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231176158&sr=8-1
But then again....it looks like some photos were out there after all. So here we are.
Moonbat
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Re: Hughes D-2
"The style of the 3-view is indeed very 'FlugRevue' "
Maybe it's a kind of a "standard style", as most such 3-views in "FlugRevue"
are signed "HR", implying that the last name of the artist begins with R, but
the 3-view of the XF-11 is signed by "Hueber", surely the last name.
"The style of the 3-view is indeed very 'FlugRevue' "
Maybe it's a kind of a "standard style", as most such 3-views in "FlugRevue"
are signed "HR", implying that the last name of the artist begins with R, but
the 3-view of the XF-11 is signed by "Hueber", surely the last name.
Re: Hughes D-2
Apparently, there is a fair amount of D-2 documentation in the Sara Clarke files at College Park. Unfortunately, that collection is ciurrently closed, possibly for indexing.
Best Regards,
Artie Bob
Apparently, there is a fair amount of D-2 documentation in the Sara Clarke files at College Park. Unfortunately, that collection is ciurrently closed, possibly for indexing.
Best Regards,
Artie Bob
Re: Hughes D-2
Initials H.R on the FlugRevue drawings are for Hans Redemann
as far as I know...
About the D-2 , there should also be a DX-2 and D-5 .
All with a different wingplanform.
(mentioned in several articles)
Anyone with a bit more info about ?
(exept for the book mentioned afore)
Initials H.R on the FlugRevue drawings are for Hans Redemann
as far as I know...
About the D-2 , there should also be a DX-2 and D-5 .
All with a different wingplanform.
(mentioned in several articles)
Anyone with a bit more info about ?
(exept for the book mentioned afore)
Apteryx
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Re: Hughes D-2
Hey, y'all--
I have a copy of "Air Historian." Found it in a secondhand bookstore in Bundaberg, Queensland, in 1976. A one-off, apparently. The D-2 article is not very coherent, but full of interesting tidbits. Although the author is not identified, this passage is found in the article:
"Now, for the first time, Australian aviation artist-draughtsman researcher, Harry Robinson has created a set of drawings of this rare machine from the past."
Note that the previously posted 3-view is credited to Langdon G. Halls. The article does feature this other front view, not captioned or attributed, which the reader is left to wonder about. Interestingly, it seems to show inline engines installed. Tornados?
--Ian
Hey, y'all--
I have a copy of "Air Historian." Found it in a secondhand bookstore in Bundaberg, Queensland, in 1976. A one-off, apparently. The D-2 article is not very coherent, but full of interesting tidbits. Although the author is not identified, this passage is found in the article:
"Now, for the first time, Australian aviation artist-draughtsman researcher, Harry Robinson has created a set of drawings of this rare machine from the past."
Note that the previously posted 3-view is credited to Langdon G. Halls. The article does feature this other front view, not captioned or attributed, which the reader is left to wonder about. Interestingly, it seems to show inline engines installed. Tornados?
--Ian
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JPC
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Re: Hughes D-2
Thomas Wildenberg is co-author of a biography of Howard Hughes, and he's done an excellent multi-part article that should be considered as a good source for info on the D-2. See "A Visionary Ahead of His Time: Howard Hughes and the U.S. Air Force," especially Part II, "The Hughes D-2 and XF-11," in Air Power History magazine, Vol. 55 No. 1 (Spring 2008); it's published by the AF Historical Foundation, and well worth seeking out. The article includes an especially interesting photo of a wind tunnel model of an early version of the D-2 now held by the Florida Air Museum:
Thomas Wildenberg is co-author of a biography of Howard Hughes, and he's done an excellent multi-part article that should be considered as a good source for info on the D-2. See "A Visionary Ahead of His Time: Howard Hughes and the U.S. Air Force," especially Part II, "The Hughes D-2 and XF-11," in Air Power History magazine, Vol. 55 No. 1 (Spring 2008); it's published by the AF Historical Foundation, and well worth seeking out. The article includes an especially interesting photo of a wind tunnel model of an early version of the D-2 now held by the Florida Air Museum:
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Apteryx
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Re: Hughes D-2
Wow. I have got to get down to Lakeland. They've apparently got a Howard Hughes room open now, with some models, although the pictures on their website don't show that D-2 model.
http://www.sun-n-fun.org/content/interior.asp?section=museum&body=displays/hughescollection
Wow. I have got to get down to Lakeland. They've apparently got a Howard Hughes room open now, with some models, although the pictures on their website don't show that D-2 model.
http://www.sun-n-fun.org/content/interior.asp?section=museum&body=displays/hughescollection
roadrunner2
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Re: Hughes D-2
is it possible to see the other views.....
Apteryx said:
is it possible to see the other views.....
Apteryx
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Re: Hughes D-2
The Air Historian article contains the three-view by Langdon Halls, which XP-67_Moonbat supplied at the start of this thread, and the front view I supplied. That's all the D-2 illustrations apart from an isometric perspective rendering from Hughes and another Hughes illustration, a fanciful "in-action" scene. I'll post them tonight.
The article is confusing, and the attributions are mostly missing.
--Ian
The Air Historian article contains the three-view by Langdon Halls, which XP-67_Moonbat supplied at the start of this thread, and the front view I supplied. That's all the D-2 illustrations apart from an isometric perspective rendering from Hughes and another Hughes illustration, a fanciful "in-action" scene. I'll post them tonight.
The article is confusing, and the attributions are mostly missing.
--Ian
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Re: Hughes D-2
Thanks a lot! really interesting art never seen before.
A bit off-topic but it's very interesting from that "in action" art to see US fighters are represented intercepting German aircraft. I've already seen the Bf 110 at Vultee's contemporary ad. I think the reason for that is US manufacturers main target for their combat aircraft in late 30's was Europen countries (UK, France, Netherlands...) facing a possible war with the III Reich.
Thanks a lot! really interesting art never seen before.
A bit off-topic but it's very interesting from that "in action" art to see US fighters are represented intercepting German aircraft. I've already seen the Bf 110 at Vultee's contemporary ad. I think the reason for that is US manufacturers main target for their combat aircraft in late 30's was Europen countries (UK, France, Netherlands...) facing a possible war with the III Reich.
Re: Hughes D-2
The Florida Air Museum in Lakeland (@ Sun 'n Fun) has quite a bit of Howard Hughes memoribilia, including models of the H-1, H-4, XF-11 and D-2 (more pics from when I visited). They also have a Convair F2Y and Lockheed FV, among other aircraft...
The Florida Air Museum in Lakeland (@ Sun 'n Fun) has quite a bit of Howard Hughes memoribilia, including models of the H-1, H-4, XF-11 and D-2 (more pics from when I visited). They also have a Convair F2Y and Lockheed FV, among other aircraft...
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Re: Hughes D-2
I did before I asked the question David...
In fact, I hoped to find more about the timeframe/date of the twinfinned
design.The article in Air Power History gives no indication as far as I saw.
All the sources I searched did not even made a mention of it..
I did before I asked the question David...
In fact, I hoped to find more about the timeframe/date of the twinfinned
design.The article in Air Power History gives no indication as far as I saw.
All the sources I searched did not even made a mention of it..
Re: Hughes D-2
I think lark was referring to this post, not mine (emphasis is mine).
Clioman said:
I think lark was referring to this post, not mine (emphasis is mine).
Hughes XF-11 and Variants
I found a three view blueprint of the D-5 (the fighter version that came before the XF-11) at Archives II; it was so huge, I had to pay to use their oversized scanner; and here is the image with some cleanup to shrink file sizes.
The original is about 13,700 x 8,700 and with true color TIFF, clocks in at 200 MB
I found a three view blueprint of the D-5 (the fighter version that came before the XF-11) at Archives II; it was so huge, I had to pay to use their oversized scanner; and here is the image with some cleanup to shrink file sizes.
The original is about 13,700 x 8,700 and with true color TIFF, clocks in at 200 MB
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Steve Pace
Aviation History Writer
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Re: Hughes XF-11 and Variants
I wonder if a high res color image is out there somewhere?...
I wonder if a high res color image is out there somewhere?...
Re: Hughes XF-11 and Variants
BTW, the Archives II in it's XF-11 files, has the accident report for the infamous crash of the XF-11 that's portrayed in The Aviator. I didn't scan any of it in (it's hundreds of pages at the minimum and very dry language).
Basic summation -- it places all the blame on the pilot (read, Howard Hughes); for exceeding the flight test parameters -- the flight was supposed to be a basic checklist to test some elements of the plane (IIRC landing gear retraction etc); but Hughes ignored that and turned it into a joyride.
Then, when the oil pressure on the contra-rotating prop failed; Hughes did all the wrong actions to correct the offset torque/thrust, and crashed.
Additionally, it said that if the second XF-11 crashed, Hughes Aircraft would pay for it.
(paraphrasing from my memory)
Also, apologies in advance to those who were expecting a calvalcade of rare photos of the XF-11. I was unable to locate any, and the only photo I could find was buried in a technical report on modifications of the XF-11 -- I wonder if the old urban legend of Howard Hughes deliberately destroying any information on the XF-11 is true.
BTW, the Archives II in it's XF-11 files, has the accident report for the infamous crash of the XF-11 that's portrayed in The Aviator. I didn't scan any of it in (it's hundreds of pages at the minimum and very dry language).
Basic summation -- it places all the blame on the pilot (read, Howard Hughes); for exceeding the flight test parameters -- the flight was supposed to be a basic checklist to test some elements of the plane (IIRC landing gear retraction etc); but Hughes ignored that and turned it into a joyride.
Then, when the oil pressure on the contra-rotating prop failed; Hughes did all the wrong actions to correct the offset torque/thrust, and crashed.
Additionally, it said that if the second XF-11 crashed, Hughes Aircraft would pay for it.
(paraphrasing from my memory)
Also, apologies in advance to those who were expecting a calvalcade of rare photos of the XF-11. I was unable to locate any, and the only photo I could find was buried in a technical report on modifications of the XF-11 -- I wonder if the old urban legend of Howard Hughes deliberately destroying any information on the XF-11 is true.
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Re: Hughes XF-11 and Variants
It's highly likely that this photo was taken at the Hughes Culver City facility, where the two XF-11s were built. This is the first aircraft (the second did not have contra-rotating props), and since it crashed on its' first flight, there is no where else that it could have been photographed.
OTH, the second aircraft did eventually make it to Wright Field and was photographed there.
Excellent work!
RyanCrierie said:
It's highly likely that this photo was taken at the Hughes Culver City facility, where the two XF-11s were built. This is the first aircraft (the second did not have contra-rotating props), and since it crashed on its' first flight, there is no where else that it could have been photographed.
OTH, the second aircraft did eventually make it to Wright Field and was photographed there.
Excellent work!
Apteryx
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Re: Hughes XF-11 and Variants
Hi--
That D-5 general arrangement drawing is quite the find! There's no apparent dimensional info, though--except the stated scale of 1/50. Could you share with us the measurement of the wingspan on your original scan?
Given that the drawing depicts the D-2 with a new wing, I'd guess the length would be just shy of fourteen inches, or 352 millimeters (one-fiftieth of 57' 10"). The span is much increased--looks closer to the XF-11 than the D-2.
Regards--Ian
Hi--
That D-5 general arrangement drawing is quite the find! There's no apparent dimensional info, though--except the stated scale of 1/50. Could you share with us the measurement of the wingspan on your original scan?
Given that the drawing depicts the D-2 with a new wing, I'd guess the length would be just shy of fourteen inches, or 352 millimeters (one-fiftieth of 57' 10"). The span is much increased--looks closer to the XF-11 than the D-2.
Regards--Ian
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Re: Hughes XF-11 and Variants
Do we know exactly what difference there is between D-2/DX-2 and D-5? Until now I've always assumed the D-2 was the initial design submitted by Hughes and the D-5 the actual prototypes...
Do we know exactly what difference there is between D-2/DX-2 and D-5? Until now I've always assumed the D-2 was the initial design submitted by Hughes and the D-5 the actual prototypes...
Apteryx
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Re: Hughes XF-11 and Variants
A short, provisional history:
The D-2 has also been referred to as the Hughes Design no. 2, the Design no. 1 being his famous racer.
The D-2 is the plane that was built and was flown by Hughes several times before he concluded the wing needed a complete redesign. This newly uncovered drawing seems to confirm that the D-5 was, essentially, the D-2 with this redesigned, longer wing. It may have been Hughes' intention to rebuild his single D-2 prototype with the new wing, but the Air Force's insistence on an all-metal plane, and the ultimate destruction of the D-2 in a hangar fire, resulted in the further development of the design into the XF-11. There was probably never any real D-5, or even substantial construction on one.
Stargazer2006 said:
A short, provisional history:
The D-2 has also been referred to as the Hughes Design no. 2, the Design no. 1 being his famous racer.
The D-2 is the plane that was built and was flown by Hughes several times before he concluded the wing needed a complete redesign. This newly uncovered drawing seems to confirm that the D-5 was, essentially, the D-2 with this redesigned, longer wing. It may have been Hughes' intention to rebuild his single D-2 prototype with the new wing, but the Air Force's insistence on an all-metal plane, and the ultimate destruction of the D-2 in a hangar fire, resulted in the further development of the design into the XF-11. There was probably never any real D-5, or even substantial construction on one.
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Re: Hughes XF-11 and Variants
Here the pictures at the SDASM Archives.
Link: http://www.flickr.com/search/?ss=2&w=49487266%40N07&q=XF-11&m=text
Here the pictures at the SDASM Archives.
Link: http://www.flickr.com/search/?ss=2&w=49487266%40N07&q=XF-11&m=text
Re: Hughes XF-11 and Variants
Howard Hughes Crash Lands XF-11 into Houses in Beverly Hills, CA on July 7, 1946
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuP8vFkU2y8
Howard Hughes Crash Lands XF-11 into Houses in Beverly Hills, CA on July 7, 1946
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuP8vFkU2y8
Re: Hughes XF-11 and Variants
Photograph of Hughes XF-11 prototype 2.
Artist's impression of Hughes XF-11 prototype 2.
Source:
http://www.aviadoresvirtuales.org/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=70&func=view&catid=10&id=44171
http://www.thexhunters.com/xpeditions/xf-11_aircraft.html
Photograph of Hughes XF-11 prototype 2.
Artist's impression of Hughes XF-11 prototype 2.
Source:
http://www.aviadoresvirtuales.org/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=70&func=view&catid=10&id=44171
http://www.thexhunters.com/xpeditions/xf-11_aircraft.html
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