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overscan said:Current project for a Heavy Transport Helicopter
Source:
Aviation International News July 17 (Farnborough)
overscan said:Unfortunately its a tiny diagram (a few cm across) and thats the best I can do with it.
pometablava said:It is the Eurocopter HTH
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2006/03/21/205507/franco-german-joint-request-bolsters-eurocopters-hopes-for-a-new-heavylift.html
yasotay said:pometablava said:It is the Eurocopter HTH
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2006/03/21/205507/franco-german-joint-request-bolsters-eurocopters-hopes-for-a-new-heavylift.html
Do not be surprised if you see Eurocopter teaming with Sikorsky on the CH-53K program.
yasotay said:Well it will be interesting to see if this does carry on. I had heard (unsubstantiated) claims that the HTH program was falling out of favor in France and Germany. I suspect that the Germans at least will eventually have to replace their CH-53, since their OPTEMPO has increased dramatically. Without a new program it will be Mi-26, CH-53K with CH-47F and EH-101 as lesser options.
LowObservable said:My best educated guess is that HTH is most likely to be a CH-53K with a new fuselage (it if ever happens). This allows Europe to piggy-back off a hot production line and get a state of the art helicopter, unlike the CH-53E.
It actually works well for everybody. The only bit of the CH-53K that isn't actually new is the fuselage. By leaving that in place the Marines can continue to fool Congress into thinking it's a derivative, which has allowed them to avoid a competition. The Marines don't particularly care, because they mostly use the Echo as an external-load hauler anyway.
But the small cabin is a disadvantage for exports. The CH-35K could really use a bigger cabin to take advantage of its payload (and it would be bigger than the CH-47 cabin) and this way Sikorsky gets the Europeans to pay for it, and can sell it as a worldwide JV.
The K's fuselage is also new (wider, different internals). About the only thing common between the E and the K will be the dataplate.LowObservable said:The only bit of the CH-53K that isn't actually new is the fuselage
CammNut said:Just uncovered these from a 2002 presentation by Sikorsky - a derivative of the CH-53E to meet the European HTH requirement. Talks continue, so there is probably an updated concept based on the CH-53K.
sferrin said:CH-53Ks for everybody!
sferrin said:According to AvWeek a couple European countries have expressed interest to one degree or another (Spain and Germany IIRC). I think if the CH-53K is already flying with a minimum of surprises (knock on wood) it would be tough to justify a European one virtually in the same class. Imagine if the US had an A400-class transport in service right now what might be happening.
yasotay said:sferrin said:According to AvWeek a couple European countries have expressed interest to one degree or another (Spain and Germany IIRC). I think if the CH-53K is already flying with a minimum of surprises (knock on wood) it would be tough to justify a European one virtually in the same class. Imagine if the US had an A400-class transport in service right now what might be happening.
CH-53K is not yet flying. Long lead items are working and there are some issues with the engines and (surprise) cost are going up.
Although Germany's requirement is to replace its CH-53Gs, the new CH-53K isn't big enough to meet the FTH requirement, which calls for a cabin large enough to transport light armored vehicles. But the CH-53K's new dynamic system might be big enough for the job if mated to a new, larger airframe.
Sorry I misunderstood your initial comment.sferrin said:yasotay said:sferrin said:According to AvWeek a couple European countries have expressed interest to one degree or another (Spain and Germany IIRC). I think if the CH-53K is already flying with a minimum of surprises (knock on wood) it would be tough to justify a European one virtually in the same class. Imagine if the US had an A400-class transport in service right now what might be happening.
CH-53K is not yet flying. Long lead items are working and there are some issues with the engines and (surprise) cost are going up.
Nobody said it was flying yet, but it will be long before a Eurocopter HTH. What are the issues with the engines you speak of? As for costs it would still likely be cheaper to buy CH-53K (given the numbers planned) than to go it alone.
Source (PDF): http://www.eda.europa.eu/WebUtils/downloadfile.aspx?FileID=532Triton said:It seems that the idea of a new European program to develop a new helicopter for the Future Transport Helicopter (FTH) program is dead.
According to Bill Sweetman, Boeing is interested in the program and has proposed a derivative of its CH-47 Chinook.
ILA 2004: Eurocopter unveils Heavy Transport Helicopter concept
ROBERT HEWSON Editor, Jane's Air-Launched Weapons
Berlin
The German Army's CH-53G replacement requirement is driving Eurocopter's new Heavy Transport Helicopter (HTH) concept that was shown for the first time at the International Aerospace Exhibition in Berlin.
However, Eurocopter admits that the European market for helicopters in this class will not support an independent development programme and the company is looking to the US Marine Corps' CH-53X effort.
The three-engined HTH draws on NH90 experience, using Eurocopter's fly-by-wire control system and composite structure technology. With a payload of between 10 and 13 tons, carrying 70 troops, the HTH would have a maximum range of 1,200km without refuelling. Eurocopter has described the HTH as possibly the "Airbus A380 of helicopters" and hopes that it might become the basis for a new European-US co-operative development programme. German officials have already said that they do not favour a CH-53 upgrade and would prefer to acquire a new aircraft.
Eurocopter HTH :
Crew: 2
Passengers: 70 soldiers
Power plant: 3 x turboshafts
Power: 3 x 5000 kW
Performance
Top speed: 300 km/h
Range up to 1200 km or 5000 km with air-to-air refuelling
Dimensions
Cabin length : at least 10 m
Cabin width: at least 3 m
Cabin height: at least 1,6 m
Weights
Payload: around 10 tons in the cabin
Max. take-off weight: up to 40 tons
History
The German army aviation command has, together with the French DGA, defined the basic requirements for a new heavy transport helicopter. These were also cross-checked with the NATO Landgroup 10 specifications.
Thus, Eurocopter started preliminary studies for a successor to the German army CH-53G helicopters in about 2003. In the spring of 2004 it was said that there are no German funds available for the programme for now.
A new HTH could be available around 2015 – 2020.
Remarks
For long-range airborne operations, NATO nations will need a new heavy lift helicopter to replace types like the CH-53G or the Chinook. Eurocopter is proposing a new design concept that will boost capabilities.
Among the loads will be the Dingo personell carrier.
In the spring of 2004, Eurocopter stated that the HTH would be ideal for international cooperation. Especially, a transatlantic partnership would be preferable, to bring costs down.
Eurocopter proposed to contribute high-tech components like fly-by-wire or fly-by-light, digital flight control systems, glass cockpit and composite structures. An aim would be to use existing test and training equipment from the Tiger and NH90 programmes.
Source: Aviation Week - ILA Berlin Air Show 2012 - German Heavy Lift: Buy Big, or Think Smaller?Amy Butler said:Details are expected to emerge this week of a joint venture between EADS and Boeing to capture work for Germany’s next-generation heavy-lift helicopter program.
EADS is displaying its joint concept with Boeing, including diagrams of a proposed tandem-rotor design and a full-scale cross section of the proposed cabin for the aircraft. It looks much like an enlarged CH-47 Chinook, built by Boeing. It is likely that Boeing’s contribution to this design would be providing the tandem-rotor technology and dynamics of the aircraft. [...]