Advanced Medium STOL Transport (AMST) and its predecessors

P

Pioneer

Seek out and close with the enemy
Senior Member
Joined
21 May 2006
Messages
2,834
Reaction score
1,919
In 1972 the USAF put out a ‘Request for Proposal’ RfP for a Lockheed C-130 Hercules replacement.
The program was titled the ‘Advanced Medium Short take-off and landing Transport’ - ‘AMST’ program.
The USAF sent the Request for Proposal to nine American aerospace companies.
Bell Aerospace, Boeing, Fairchild Industries, Lockheed-Georgia, North American Rockwell and McDonnell Douglas submitted designs.
On the 10 November 1972, Boeing with their YC-14 design and McDonnell Douglas with their YC-15 design were awarded further contracts for development.

Does anyone have any information, pictures, drawings and specifications of the designs submitted by Bell, Fairchild, Lockheed and North American Rockwell?

P.S. I think it was a great pity that neither of the YC-14 or YC-15 were not developed further nor put into production!
What do you think?

Regards
Pioneer
 
Put a picture of the C-17 next to the YC-15 ;) The real shame is that the YC-14 was generally considered superior to the YC-15. Either would have made an excellent replacement to the C-130 but then they probably would have been more in the A400 class than C-130.
 
Well in reality I think the USAF (and the US Army would not have complained either) were looking not just a Hercules replacement, but also a quantum leap in capability to. For both the YC-14 & YC-15 were able to both fit and airlift a M-109 155mm SPH (While the YC-14 was even able to accommodate a M-60 MBT – although it did not fly with it!)
I had forgotten to mention that the Lockheed proposal was (I think) the C-130 WBS (Wide-Body Short take off and landing). This proposal by Lockheed was to have fixed one of the biggest operational problems of the versatile Hercules, its limited cargo hull width. (I have the C-130 WBS internal cargo hull dimensions somewhere!)


Regards
Pioneer
 
If anyone has the old Squadron "In Action" series book on the C-130, if I remember right there's a picture of the C-130 WBS along with the proposed twin-engine Herk.
 
Footnote about MDD.
They could say "thanks" to Breguet which had share the Br.941 with them in the 60's. The Breguet 941 took off in 200m and landed in 120m.
 
Well, that's it ! I knew, there were missing a lot of types in the "Biggest mistakes in aviation?
Which projects should have been built?" - thread ! But as far as I know, MDD never used
this system, the types designed in collaboration with Breguet remained paper planes.
So, why say "thank you" ? ;D
 
I was browsing my archive for some Tier 3 thread stuff, but instead it I found this. Seems that it is C-130WBS.
 

Attachments

  • C-130VLS.jpg
    C-130VLS.jpg
    49.8 KB · Views: 2,029
  • C-130WLS.jpg
    C-130WLS.jpg
    61 KB · Views: 1,924
Jemiba said:
Well, that's it ! I knew, there were missing a lot of types in the "Biggest mistakes in aviation?
Which projects should have been built?" - thread ! But as far as I know, MDD never used
this system, the types designed in collaboration with Breguet remained paper planes.
So, why say "thank you" ? ;D
Click to expand...

They USE the system -coanda effect- And well, they have copied the Caravelle in 1960-65 to make the DC-9 :p so why not trying again? and it worked, a second time!!
 
I think, one of the main features in the Br.941, and extensively tested in the Br.940 and a
special ground rigg, was the shaft coupling of all four engines. And such a system isn't used
in any other STOL a/c AFAIK. Maybe, the systems in some VTOL a/c benefited from this
development, but in this field MDD wasn't too ambitious.
 
V-22 uses the shaft inter-coupling of its engines to preserve engine-out performance.
 
Jemiba said:
I think, one of the main features in the Br.941, and extensively tested in the Br.940 and a
special ground rigg, was the shaft coupling of all four engines. And such a system isn't used
in any other STOL a/c AFAIK. Maybe, the systems in some VTOL a/c benefited from this
development, but in this field MDD wasn't too ambitious.
Click to expand...
Several other VSTOL aircraft use (or have used) cross-shafts to couple the engines:

LTV-Hiller-Ryan XC-142 (first flight 1964)
Canadair CL-84 Dynavert (first flight 1965)
Bell X-22 (first flight 1966)
Bell XV-15 (first flight 1977)
Bell-Agusta BA609 (first flight 2005- I think)
Curtiss X-19 (first flight 1963)
 
Hello Friends!
AMST Competition, 5 prorosals:
1) Boeing Model 953-------------YC-14
2) McDonnell-Douglas Model D-?--YC-15
3) Lockheed-Georgia/North American Rockwell Model ?
4) ? Model ?
5) ? Model ?
 

Attachments

  • ycunknown.jpg
    ycunknown.jpg
    44.2 KB · Views: 1,837
Boeing Model 953-815 from 1973 - strange symbiosis of Boeing's YC-14 and MDC YC-15

From
STOL Tactical Aircraft Investigation. Volume I. Configuration Definition: Medium STOL Transport with Vectored Thrust/Mechanical Flaps
Carroll, Richard H. ; Jants, John W. ; Milns, Peter
BOEING AEROSPACE CO SEATTLE WA
http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/AD766637
 

Attachments

  • Boeing Model 953-815.jpg
    Boeing Model 953-815.jpg
    113.2 KB · Views: 2,196
GD Convair 1973 STOL Tactical Aircraft studies

STOL Tactical Aircraft Investigation. Volume V. Flight Control Technology
GENERAL DYNAMICS SAN DIEGO CA CONVAIR AEROSPACE DIV
Hebert, Jr., J. ; Campbell, G. ; Price, E. ; White, L. B. ; Halstenberg, R.

http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/AD767364

The Flight Control Technology studies were conducted by the Convair
Aerospace Division of General Dynamics Corporation under USAF
Contract F33615-71-C-1754, Project 643A, "STOL Tactical Aircraft
Investigation." This contract was sponsored by the Prototype Division
of the Air Force Flight Dynamics Laboratory.
 

Attachments

  • GD-EBF-1.jpg
    GD-EBF-1.jpg
    88.2 KB · Views: 1,842
  • GD-IBF-2.jpg
    GD-IBF-2.jpg
    100.3 KB · Views: 653
  • GD-MF-VT.jpg
    GD-MF-VT.jpg
    98.6 KB · Views: 700
Pioneer said:
P.S. I think it was a great pity that neither of the YC-14 or YC-15 were not developed further nor put into production!
What do you think?
Click to expand...

The only replacement for a C-130 is another Herky Bird. It's a marvelous airplane, considering that it's been flying for almost 55 years with no real replacement in sight. It's the modern equivalent of the C-47.

While a jet-powered replacement like the YC-14 would offer some advantages like higher cruising speed, you can't beat the turboprops for fuel-efficient operation.
 
Matej,
I like the T-tail bird. Something not unlike it was being floated on the commercial market in the 1970s when it seemed that the DC-8-63F/CF was going to be retired without a replacement due to noise. The engines would have been based on the T701 for the XCH-62. But then they put CFMs on the old Super 60s and that was that.
 
In the sense that it used the same concept of blowing the upper surface of the wing and deflect the stream downwise to augment lift for STOL, much as the C-17 used concepts from the YC-15.
 

Attachments

  • LockheedNARAMST.JPG
    LockheedNARAMST.JPG
    40.5 KB · Views: 794
Bonjour friends ! ;)

I m back .... ;D

A question about the "new" flight test of the MDD YC-15 in 1997 .... how many flights ? ... and for what this new test program ? (for black programs ?)

Strange no ?
 
MIRAGE 4000 said:
Bonjour friends ! ;)

I m back .... ;D

A question about the "new" flight test of the MDD YC-15 in 1997 .... how many flights ? ... and for what this new test program ? (for black programs ?)

Strange no ?
Click to expand...

Don't know if you knew this but you can see it on the ramp at Palmdale on Google Earth.
 
Didn't know about those late flight tests... but I would assume they were part of the C-17 development phase.
 
I think there was some talk of using the YC-15 fuselage to test the main elements of Boeing "Super Frog" (tilt wing + turboprops).
 
"first" flight in april 1997 .... and back to AMARC :'( ... 10 flights or less (or more ? ???)

New life for YC-14 too ? ???
 
current state of YC-15 - restored last year
http://www.edwards.af.mil/photos/media_search.asp?q=yc-15&btnG.x=0&btnG.y=0
"The aircraft returned to Edwards to be part of the Century Circle museum annex near the West Gate."
 

Attachments

  • 080708-F-6912S-109sm.jpg
    080708-F-6912S-109sm.jpg
    126.7 KB · Views: 835
MIRAGE 4000 said:
A question about the "new" flight test of the MDD YC-15 in 1997 .... how many flights ? ... and for what this new test program ? (for black programs ?)
Click to expand...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/c-15.htm

One of only two YC-15 prototype aircraft that was produced in the 1970’s had been in AMARC’s desert storage for a period of 17 years. This aircraft was identified to play a new role as a test bed for advanced technology. In order to meet this need, the AMARC workforce in conjunction with Boeing worked on the YC-15 for several months on site. After more than 15 years in storage in the Arizona desert, in late 1996 the McDonnell Douglas YC-15 was brought out of mothballs to continue its mission as an advanced technology demonstrator. It was the first Air Force developmental aircraft leased back to a contractor under a Cooperative Research and Development Agreement. The primary reason for the agreement was to provide a prototype to explore new technology applications for the C-17 and other airlift aircraft. Without the use of the YC-15 for airlift testing to assist the lone C-17 test aircraft, the Air Force would have to rely on the operational C-17 fleet, which was already heavily tasked with global commitments. The YC-15, which first flew in 1975, had been stored at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Ariz., the home to the Air Force's Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Center, an Air Force Material Command facility. Refurbishment was being done by both McDonnell Douglas and AMARC crews. The result: a successfully refurbished and flight ready aircraft departed AMARC in 1997. The YC-15 operated out of McDonnell Douglas facilities in Long Beach, CA.
Click to expand...
 
Artist's impression of Boeing Model 953-815 vector thrust medium STOL transport of the STOL Tactical Aircraft Investigation (STAI) portion of the AMST program.

Source:
Carroll, Richard H et al. STOL Tactical Aircraft Investigation. Volume I. Configuration Definition: Medium STOL Transport with Vectored Thrust/Mechanical Flaps Boeing Aerospace Co. Seattle, WA
May 1973

Abstract:
A configuration for an Advanced Medium STOL Transport (AMST) using vectored thrust for powered lift is defined in detail. Capability to operate from an austere forward airfield of 2000 feet length at the midpoint of 500 nm radius mission with 28,000 lbs. of payload is substantiated by aerodynamic, propulsion, structural, and weights data. The vectored thrust powered lift concept is compared with other powered lift schemes considered for the AMST. A program of continuing research and development in tactical airlift and STOL technology is recommended.
Click to expand...

Handle / proxy Url: http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/AD766637
 

Attachments

  • BoeingVectoredThrustMediumSTOLTransport.JPG
    BoeingVectoredThrustMediumSTOLTransport.JPG
    57.1 KB · Views: 762
Three-view drawings of General Dynamics Convair Aerospace Division Externally Blown Flap (EBF), Mechanical Flap plus Vectored Thrust (MF/VT), and Internally Blown Flap (IBF) designs of the STOL Tactical Aircraft Investigation (STAI) portion of the AMST program.

Source:
Hebert,Jr, J et al. STOL Tactical Aircraft Investigation. Volume 1. Configuration Definition General Dynamics San Diego CA Convair Aerospace Division
May 1973

Abstract:
The overall objective of the design effort was to conduct a preliminary vehicle-sizing activity to establish baseline configurations for the STOL tactical aircraft investigation. These preliminary baselines were used for the takeoff and landing studies and as a point of departure for wind tunnel test planning and flight control technology activities. The lift/propulsion concepts studied were: Externally Blown Flap (EBF); Mechanical Flap plus Vectored Thrust (MF/VT); and Internally Blown Flap (IBF). The report summarizes the design activities for the three-month and six-month configuration reviews.
Click to expand...

Handle / proxy Url: http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/AD766941
 

Attachments

  • GeneralDynamicsEBF.JPG
    GeneralDynamicsEBF.JPG
    85 KB · Views: 769
  • GeneralDynamicsMFVT.JPG
    GeneralDynamicsMFVT.JPG
    87 KB · Views: 694
  • GeneralDynamicsIBF.JPG
    GeneralDynamicsIBF.JPG
    92.9 KB · Views: 726
In an effort to sell the AMST, Boeing and McDonnell Douglas proposed the use of the YC-14 and the YC-15 for various missions including mid-air launching of ICBMs. A McDonnell Douglas YC-15, fitted with CFM56 engines, is shown in this artist's concept air launching an MX missile.

Source: Norton, Bill STOL Progenitors: The Technology Path to a Large STOL Aircraft and the C-17 American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Inc. 2002
 

Attachments

  • DouglasYC15MX.JPG
    DouglasYC15MX.JPG
    50.7 KB · Views: 693
Artist's impression of McDonnell Douglas AMST design.

Source: Norton, Bill STOL Progenitors: The Technology Path to a Large STOL Aircraft and the C-17 American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Inc. 2002
 

Attachments

  • McDonnellDouglasAMST.JPG
    McDonnellDouglasAMST.JPG
    41.3 KB · Views: 687
Artist's impression of Boeing AMST design.

Source: Norton, Bill STOL Progenitors: The Technology Path to a Large STOL Aircraft and the C-17 American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Inc. 2002
 

Attachments

  • BoeingAMST.JPG
    BoeingAMST.JPG
    34.7 KB · Views: 424
Oh, sweet memories! I was 12 then, and I was fortunate to see both AMST contenders, the Boeing YC-14 and McDonnell Douglas YC-15 together... Thanks for reminding me... ;)
 
Glad to hear you liked the pic. The article from Flug Revue about Le Bourget 77 is fascinating. You were really fortunate to be there.

There was a 1:1 fully transparent Mirage F-1 mockup on exhibition and a Mirage 2000 mockup.
Flying exhibits from YF-17, F-16 prototype, Tornado, SH 37 Viggen.
In static exhibition there are the following: Il-76, Tu-154, Tu-144, Il-86, Fokker F27 Maritime, VFW-614, A-10,Pucará, An-32, Yak-42, YC-15, YC-14, E-2C, E-3A, L-29, Fouga 90, Kfir.
 
Those I remember really well: YF-17, F-16 prototype, Tu-144, Il-86, VFW-614, Yak-42, YC-15, YC-14, E-2C, Fouga 90... I also seem to remember a Hercules and a Convair 990 (possibly Hugh Hefner's?) although I'm not 100% sure that it wasn't 1981 instead (didn't attend in 1979).
 
G`day gents

I was flicking through an old book (The Encyclopedia of World Air Power - By Bill Gunston), and came across this regarding the YC-15 -

One planned version was a totally self-contained mobile surgical hospital, complete with a casevac helicopter

Considering today`s more civilized nature of nations willing to moreopenly and humanly support and assist one another in times of natural disasters (regardless of political or ideological differences), I envisage this variant being a very useful and busy U.S contribution - had it been put into production and service.

Regards
Pioneer
 

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom