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Vought (Chance Vought, LTV) Designations
- Thread starter Skybolt
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The greater request that show following pages:
page.283-----------Model V-362
page.356-----------Model V-381
page.433-----------Model V-483
page.434-----------Model V-502
page.443-----------Model V-538
page.462-----------Model V-371
page.283-----------Model V-362
page.356-----------Model V-381
page.433-----------Model V-483
page.434-----------Model V-502
page.443-----------Model V-538
page.462-----------Model V-371
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Folks, some clarification is due on the V-project numbers related to the Crusader. Since someone else has already done the job, enjoy the Crusader-related V-project numbers list from Naval Fighters N.16 "Vought F-8 Crusader Part 1" by Steve pace. Hope this settles some questions. BTW, V-381 wasn't apparently intended for some competion, it was an internal development by Vought to explore where the configuratiion they devised could lead. As far as I know, probably the V-455, which is much later than the v-381 (ten years or so...) was one of the Vought entry in the aborted 1962 V-AX competition, wich was superseded by VAL (Vought entry was V-461, later A-7)
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I know that A-7A is V-463
Look at figure:
http://www.voughtaircraft.com/heritage/special/html/sa-71.html
Apparently from list Vuoght did not participate in competition with XA4D-1(Douglas Model ?).
Look at figure:
http://www.voughtaircraft.com/heritage/special/html/sa-71.html
Apparently from list Vuoght did not participate in competition with XA4D-1(Douglas Model ?).
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Sure, but the V-461 was an internal study to adapt the F-8 airframe to a turbofan engine... (not explicitly the TF-30 yet), and not the VAL proposal yet.... It was proposed to the Navy as a turbofan powered attack version of the Crusader II on 12th March 1963, a full three month and a half BEFORE the VAL RFP was issued. The famous 6-weeks miracolous effort was actually preceded by a lot of work... BTW, it would be really interesting (anyone out there?) to see the V-461 design. I suspect the airframe was slimmer than the A-7 (V-463) one.
Dear Skybolt.
You have told, that I shall look those pages if there there would be pictures.
Whether was in page.283 Vought Model 362 ?
Whether was in page.443 Vought Model 538 ?
Whether was in pag. 462 Vought Model 371 ?
If there were no pictures and if jotas what that information was if it is possible show us.
You have told, that I shall look those pages if there there would be pictures.
Whether was in page.283 Vought Model 362 ?
Whether was in page.443 Vought Model 538 ?
Whether was in pag. 462 Vought Model 371 ?
If there were no pictures and if jotas what that information was if it is possible show us.
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Uh, yes, I forgot...
Anyway, the reference to the pages are all wrong. Not in the sense that they are on other pages, but that they aren't in the book. At pg. 283 there is a discussion of early versions of the F4-U Corsair... At pg. 443 photos of the aircraft for whom Vought made parts (e.g. Boeng 767), at pag. 452 there is a discussion of the Regulus I cruise missiel and the reference is actually at V-370. By the way, at page 462 there IS something interesting, I've never heard before: is seems that under V-398 Vought designed (in 1954) a version of Regulus II that had to be launched by a B-52. Anyone else heard of this?
Anyway, the reference to the pages are all wrong. Not in the sense that they are on other pages, but that they aren't in the book. At pg. 283 there is a discussion of early versions of the F4-U Corsair... At pg. 443 photos of the aircraft for whom Vought made parts (e.g. Boeng 767), at pag. 452 there is a discussion of the Regulus I cruise missiel and the reference is actually at V-370. By the way, at page 462 there IS something interesting, I've never heard before: is seems that under V-398 Vought designed (in 1954) a version of Regulus II that had to be launched by a B-52. Anyone else heard of this?
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Skybolt said:
I have a list of US Navy missile projects, which lists a "Regal" project as an "Air-launched Regulus" (possibly REGAL = REGulus, Air Launched), without quoting any further details. No idea, if this is related to the V-398.
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Regulus II without boosters had a weight more than 2.5 times the Hound Dog one at launch... So probably it is a totally different program, or the Regulus was profoundly modified. As for the REGAL, if it is a Navy project, this excludes the B-52, maybe they thought using the Seamaster?
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Skybolt said:
The weight difference may not matter that much, I rather suspect both the D-21B and the X-15 weighed in at rather more than the Hound Dog and the B-52 has no problem carrying them. If it was a Navy program, perhaps from some P3B version of the B-52?
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Sure, no problem in carrying, but maybe the specifications were very different. I mean, if you ask for a cruise with a target weight of 11.000 kg (Regulus without boosters), you are asking something different from a cruise with a full loaded weigt of 4500 kg (Hound Dog). In fact, the Houd Dog was a "support" weapons, designed to annihilate (well, trying of) the Soviet air defences to open the way for the bomber penetration and "real" attack (high megatonnage weapons). The "REGAL" seems more a high megatonnage stand off primary weapon (don't know if a B-52 with a couple of 10 tons monsters under the wings could carry other cargo and/or go very far inside hostile territory (overall, it is a very Soviet-looking philosophy). As for the Navy thin, anyone has info on the possibile early (middle of '50s) interest by the Navy in some derivative of B-52s? I doubt it, but in the last week or so the forum discussions have unearted a lot of "impossible" things...
Sentinel Chicken
American 71 Heavy, contact departure 126.47
It wouldn't surprise me. In the 1950s Boeing proposed a patrol bomber version of the B-47 Stratojet.Skybolt said:
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Bill S said:
Avions Vought has V-455 as A3U, Attack Crusader and V-456, designation not used.
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Report number CVC 2-55055/2R189 "A proposal for The V-456 Attack Crusader" dated May 1962 is
in the Vought archives. I will scan a page or two when I get a chance. I saw the same reference in
Avions Vought and in this small case, it is not correct.
in the Vought archives. I will scan a page or two when I get a chance. I saw the same reference in
Avions Vought and in this small case, it is not correct.
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Maveric said:
No, they're missing from my list and every other list I've found... As V-477 to V-487 were all 1965, and only V-500 is 1966, it is likely that most, if not all the missing designations refered to 1966 projects.
Gaps in the Vought models list include:
- VE-1 to -6, -12, -13, -16, -20 and -21.
- VE-24 to -49 apparently never allocated.
- V-51 to -64, -67, -68, -69.
- V-71 to -74, -76 to -79.
- V-81 to -84, -86 to -89.
- V-91, -94 to -96.
- V-108.
- V-122 to -129.
- V-176 to -299 never allocated.
- V-443.
- V-457.
- V-488 to -499 (see above).
- V-542 to -549.
- V-551 to V-584.
No known model number beyond V-585.
Anyone to fill some of those missing designations?
There also existed non-sequential numbers such as:
- V-1000
- Super V-1000
- V-1100
- V-1600
- V-1601
- V-1602
- V-2000
... and a series of non-standard designations in the hundreds, of which these are known:
- AST-102
- SF-106
- TF-120
- SF-121
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From the great Aeroplanes Vought book by Gerard P. Moran, a very detailed list of all built aircraft that nicely complements what exists elsewhere:
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Update on Vought non-standard designations:
V-1000 (1969 proposed lightweight "Freedom Fighter"-type project derived from F-8)
SUPER V-1000 (proposal for LWF competition)
V-1100 (1971 high-performance lightweight fighter project for U.S. Navy VF-XX competition)
V-1600 (modified F-16 for Navy Air Combat Fighter [NACF] requirement with F401 engine)
V-1601 (modified F-16 for NACF requirement with F100-3 engine)
V-1602 (Modified F-16 for NACF requirement with F101 engine — also see V-529D and A-7X)
V-2000 (1971 high-performance fighter-bomber project)
AST-100 (circa 1963, Advanced Supersonic Technology SST project)
AST-102 (circa 1963, Advanced Supersonic Technology SST project)
AST-200 (circa 1963, Advanced Supersonic Technology SST project)
RIINAA I (1968 attack project)
RIINAA II (1969 attack project)
HIPAAS-78 (1970 attack project)
HIPAAS-83 (1970 attack project)
VAMX (1975 attack project)
ATLAS A100 (1981 Advanced Technology Light Attack System)
ATLAS A201 (1982 Advanced Technology Light Attack System)
TF-120 TANDEM-FAN high speed vertical take-off and land (HSVTOL) projectfor RALS (same as V-536)
SF-106 SUPERFLY (VATOL tailless delta fighter project)
SF-120 SUPERFLY (VATOL canard fighter project)
SF-121 SUPERFLY (1980 VATOL canard fighter project)
VB-100/C BLITZFIGHTER (low cost attack aircraft project)
VB-102 BLITZTRAINER (trainer derivative project)
VB-103 BLITZFIGHTER (low cost attack aircraft project)
VB-104 BLITZFIGHTER (low cost attack aircraft project)
VB-130 BLITZFIGHTER (low cost attack aircraft project)
VB-140 BLITZTRAINER (trainer derivative project)
VB-200/C TWIN BLITZ (low cost attack aircraft project)
VTS-6 (Vought Target System 6) SLAT proposal for YAQM-127A competition
V-1000 (1969 proposed lightweight "Freedom Fighter"-type project derived from F-8)
SUPER V-1000 (proposal for LWF competition)
V-1100 (1971 high-performance lightweight fighter project for U.S. Navy VF-XX competition)
V-1600 (modified F-16 for Navy Air Combat Fighter [NACF] requirement with F401 engine)
V-1601 (modified F-16 for NACF requirement with F100-3 engine)
V-1602 (Modified F-16 for NACF requirement with F101 engine — also see V-529D and A-7X)
V-2000 (1971 high-performance fighter-bomber project)
AST-100 (circa 1963, Advanced Supersonic Technology SST project)
AST-102 (circa 1963, Advanced Supersonic Technology SST project)
AST-200 (circa 1963, Advanced Supersonic Technology SST project)
RIINAA I (1968 attack project)
RIINAA II (1969 attack project)
HIPAAS-78 (1970 attack project)
HIPAAS-83 (1970 attack project)
VAMX (1975 attack project)
ATLAS A100 (1981 Advanced Technology Light Attack System)
ATLAS A201 (1982 Advanced Technology Light Attack System)
TF-120 TANDEM-FAN high speed vertical take-off and land (HSVTOL) project
SF-106 SUPERFLY (VATOL tailless delta fighter project)
SF-120 SUPERFLY (VATOL canard fighter project)
SF-121 SUPERFLY (1980 VATOL canard fighter project)
VB-100/C BLITZFIGHTER (low cost attack aircraft project)
VB-102 BLITZTRAINER (trainer derivative project)
VB-103 BLITZFIGHTER (low cost attack aircraft project)
VB-104 BLITZFIGHTER (low cost attack aircraft project)
VB-130 BLITZFIGHTER (low cost attack aircraft project)
VB-140 BLITZTRAINER (trainer derivative project)
VB-200/C TWIN BLITZ (low cost attack aircraft project)
VTS-6 (Vought Target System 6) SLAT proposal for YAQM-127A competition
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Stargazer2006 said:
No. USAF LWF competition.
Stargazer2006 said:
No. All three of these are naval F-16 derivatives with different engines for VFAX/NACF
V-1600: F401 engine (original planned engine of the definitive F-14)
V-1601: F100-3 engine (uprated variant of the F-15/F-16 engine)
V-1602: F101 engine (from B-1)
Stargazer2006 said:
No. TF-120 and V-536 used a tandem fan engine, this is completely different from RALS.
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V-1600: Modified F-16 for NACF (Navy Air Combat Fighter) requirement with F401 engine
V-1601: Modified F-16 for NACF (Navy Air Combat Fighter) requirement with F100-3 engine
V-1602: Modified F-16 for NACF (Navy Air Combat Fighter) requirement with F101 engine
Not sure where you got the idea V-160x evolved into the F-16. It was a derivative of the F-16 for naval operation.
V-1601: Modified F-16 for NACF (Navy Air Combat Fighter) requirement with F100-3 engine
V-1602: Modified F-16 for NACF (Navy Air Combat Fighter) requirement with F101 engine
Not sure where you got the idea V-160x evolved into the F-16. It was a derivative of the F-16 for naval operation.
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Scott Lowther offers V-1600 drawings with this in the accompanying text:
http://www.up-ship.com/drawndoc/drawndocair.htm
Gerard P. Moran, the author of "Aeroplanes Vought 1917-1977", ISBN 0-911852-82-2, has his own website which says something different:
http://celticowboy.com/Alphabet%20Soup.htm
In "General Dynamics Aircraft and their Predecessors" by John Wegg, Putnam 1990, I found this:
From "American Secret Projects - Fighters & Interceptors 1945-1978" by Tony Buttler, Midland 2007:
Features of the V-1600/1601/1602 may have been incorporated into the definitive F-16 design, I don't know, but according to Moran, Wegg and Buttler the V-160x was a development of the (Y)F-16 - not the other way around.
<edit>fixed some typos</edit>
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Thanks a lot Arjen for researching the matter in such detail. Glad to see that the confusion over which came first between the GD 401 and the V-1600 series existed prior to my post, which goes to show that the question is not as easy as it may seem.
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Stargazer2006 said:
Also;
AST-100 was a circa 1963, Advanced Supersonic Technology SST project,
and PD-111 in this article;
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6564.0.html
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