Bartini Postwar Projects

flateric · 15 June 2006

T-107 - 1945 passenger airliner
T-117 Kit (Whale)- 1947 military transport project
Bartini still was prisoner of NKVD's TzKB-28 'sharashka'.
What a dreamer, what a genious..an elegant design and elegant man!

The first transport aircraft with pressurised crew and cargo compartments.
Almost finished and scrapped due the same engines (Ash-73) in waist quantities were needed for Tupolev's B-29 copycat.

flateric · 15 June 2006

more of T-117

flateric · 15 June 2006

T-107 is T-117 based (and vice versa) passenger airliner
interiors

raravia · 15 June 2006

Excelent post Gregori....

What a beautiful illustrations...

Is very interesting the history of Bartini,a convinced italian comunist who worked for the URSS, later was arrested with his whole team between the purges Then he got permission to work again, but in Siberia.

Saludos

Raravia

boxkite · 22 October 2006

... and not to forget Bartini's WIG aircraft carrier ...

Bartini seems to be the creator of the origin idea. OKB Beriev investigated a catamaran-like 'ekranoplan-avianosets' (i. e. 'Wing-In-Ground aircraft carrier') together with the TsAGI in 1963. An imposing model was tested on water - see picture below. A photo of the same model is published in the Ekranoplan book of the 'Red Star' series, but - as usual

- I cannot find my own copy for the moment. In my memory it was pictured from a different angle and gives a better view to the markings of the landing site on the back of the mighty fuselage. More an aircraft carrier in the classical meaning/sense than the large concepts with tiny fighters under the wings.

Antonio · 22 October 2006

Boxkite,

I have a copy from the Red Series "Russia's Ekranoplans" and thre are no pics from this design, only a short description.
I have the landing markings you describe but I can't remember where :'(. According to the markings, the carrier seems to be designed for VTOL aircraft....

Kim Margosein · 13 February 2007

I always love those interior drawings where everyone has a barcalounger. How come I never get on those flights?

Kim M :-[

Skybolt · 14 February 2007

Italians do it better... ;D ;D 8)

raravia · 14 February 2007

This beautiful interior design, it is if we are looking the Airbus A380 in the forties.

Great work, specially because we know the soviet authorithies didn´t care about luxuries, or at least they said so.

Skybolt · 15 February 2007

Oh, no Soviets cared a lot, expecially for airplanes going abroad. I've been told that the interiors of the Tu-114 were outstanding. And just look to the Moscow subway!

raravia · 19 February 2007

Well Skybolt

I didn´t know

I never been in Moscow!...sadly

Raravia

Skybolt · 20 February 2007

Gregory, please testify!!!

flateric · 21 February 2007

Umm, just rised up from this crowded hell...yep, comparing to Chicago it smells better and more roomy.
Comparing to London it's much cheaper (GBP 0.30 per one ticket everywhere). And it's damn fast way to reach office.
That's why Flateric still have no car. But, frankly, most of all I liked Prague subway.

reynald.d.chatillon · 26 September 2007

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I've started working on CGI models. I am trying to make a "decent" cgi model of the Bartini A57. My reference so far has been the book "Soviet Secret Projects Bombers Since 1945" by Yefim Gordon, but it does not seem to be completely consistent. any help on this plane will be gladly welcomed!

Thanks a lot,

p.d.: a very simple, layout can be seen in my personal image to the left.

flateric · 26 September 2007

Hope it can help some way. I'd better trust more first GA drawings as more recent one.
Drawing 1 and factory model photos (they are not from Panchenko) are from Nikolay Yakubovich 'Planes of Robert Bartini' (2006) RUSAVIA
second GA drawing (with Tzybin RGSR) is from G.F.Petrov's Hydroplanes and Ecranoplanes of Russia 1910-1999 (1999) Rusavia

regarding dimensions, according to Petrov, wingspan was 36.5(37.1) m, lenght 69.5(72.5)
according to Yakubovich wingspan 31,5 m, lenght 71,3 m

AFAIK, no detailed bureau documentation on A-57 survived.

amsci99 · 26 September 2007

flateric,

I did not know that there was a book devoted to the aircraft of Roberto Oros Bartini. Does it cover all of his unbuilt projects? I don't seem to able to find it at Aviapress and would appreciate it if you cover provide a scan of the cover. Thanks in advance

flateric · 26 September 2007

Here it goes http://www.eastview.com/xq/ASP/sku=776915B/f_locale=/IAkubovich/Nikolai/Vasil'evich/Moskva/Russia/Russian/qx/russian/books/product.asp
EastView wants USD 54.95 for it...in Moscow model shop it's about 600 roubles = USD 24. Problem is there are NO easy ways to transfer damn money in Moscow. PayPal only allows Russians to send money, not get them. And Western Union rates are real scum - add another 20 bucks transfer rate..so finally price getting close to these EastView's one. Book has all Bartini's projects, but I can't say it's RICHLY illustrated. Not much BW photos and really good 3-views. I'd price it at the level of 10-15 bucks.

You can try to contact guys from http://www.club-tm.ru via post@club-tm.ru, they have this book for 690 RUB (25 RUB ~ 1 USD)
At least I know them and can trust them. They take WebMoney transfers.

reynald.d.chatillon · 26 September 2007

flateric said:
Hope it can help some way. I'd better trust more first GA drawings as more recent one.
Drawing 1 and factory model photos (they are not from Panchenko) are from Nikolay Yakubovich 'Planes of Robert Bartini' (2006) RUSAVIA
second GA drawing (with Tzybin RGSR) is from G.F.Petrov's Hydroplanes and Ecranoplanes of Russia 1910-1999 (1999) Rusavia

regarding dimensions, according to Petrov, wingspan was 36.5(37.1) m, lenght 69.5(72.5)
according to Yakubovich wingspan 31,5 m, lenght 71,3 m

AFAIK, no detailed bureau documentation on A-57 survived.

Excellent information! And it makes it very clear that the cockpit if off-center. Thanks a lot!

reynald.d.chatillon · 26 September 2007

Some "old" renders, one "glossy" to check the underside and the other with two Mig 21 (F-7) for scaling purposes.

varvarin · 27 September 2007

Model: http://www.ussr-airspace.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=28_39_48&products_id=990
History: http://www.testpilot.ru/russia/bartini/a/57/a57.htm

amsci99 · 27 September 2007

flateric,

Thanks for all the info, actually I was hoping that it might turn up on eBay one of these days.

reynald.d.chatillon · 1 October 2007

Thanks a lot varvarin!!! What I notice is a difference in the upper part. The drawing shows a "flat" surface, while the model and the drawings posted by flateric suggest a convex hull. any idea on this?

Cheers!

flateric · 1 October 2007

I'd better believe in old B/W photos of actual factory desktop model and first set of drawings from 2007 issued book than to Panchenko models (with all my respect to his business). His company models are based on open publications and often inaccurate. His A-57 one surely based on old one drawings (lower set in my first post) from 1999 book. What for artist's impression - remember that A-57 hasn't definitive last iteration, so it may be just one of dozens studied.

Antonio · 30 March 2008

I recalled that link I received via email, Thanks a lot Scorp

http://www.livre-aviation.com/ROBERT_BARTINI_AIRCRAFT_DESIGNER__________EN_RUSSE-p-10022-c-1500_1525.html

Anybody knows if it is full of drawings about unbuilt Bartini projects?.

If that's the case I'll order a copy inmediatelly.

Antonio · 30 March 2008

Er 2 (crew scape procedure) video

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=eVHrgWNFGJg

VVA-14 and 14M1P great video from Flateric

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=F6Fb8bWhCKw&NR=1

VVA-14 video

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=uvK7vnZhqgw&feature=related

and some pics from :

Soviet X-Planes 2nd Edition 2000 (Gordon & Gunston) Ed Midland ISBN 1-85780-099-0
http://www.amazon.com/Soviet-X-Planes-Yefim-Gordon/dp/1857800990

Bartini Stal-8

The Osprey Encyclopedia of Russian Aircraft 1875-1995 (Bill Gunston) ISBN 1 85532 405 9
http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Russian-Aircraft-General-Aviation/dp/184176096X

Bartini DAR, Stal-6 and (Bartini) Tupolev MK-1

Le Fana de l'Aviation N° 293 - April 1994.

Bartini Stal-7

McTodd · 30 March 2008

At a tangent, I was watching a documentary about Cold War bomber projects, and it had a section about Bartini (and some spiffy CGI of the jet flying boat bomber). There was a fascinating anecdote about him...

Bartini fell foul of Stalin's purges and ended up in jail in the late 1930s (I don't think he got out until after the war). During the war, the vile Beria, Stalin's sinister henchman and head of the dreaded NKVD, visited Bartini in prison. Bartini protested that he had no idea why he had been arrested, pleaded his innocence and professed his undying loyalty to Stalin.

Beria replied, "Of course you're innocent! If I'd thought you were guilty, I'd have had you shot."

Antonio · 31 March 2008

Bartini links in the secretprojects forum:

T-107 and T-117

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,396.0.html

A-57

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2595.0.html

Project 2500 (I'm compiling more info about that monster to post it later)

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,918.0.html (Reply#6)

hesham · 31 March 2008

Hi,

also unknown project the T-203,and there is anther Bartini project of 1968.
http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/korsvvp-70.html

borovik · 31 March 2008

Stal - 6 ; Stal-8 inboard profiles
Stal - 7 (pre DB-240/Er-2)
from "Wings of the Motherland' "magazine#2-95
Bartini MTB-2(1930)
Span-53m
lenght-31m
height-9m
Areal wing-372,1 m2
MTOW-40000kg
Engines- 4800-6000 (hp)
Armament 2x37mm
12x7,62mm
max.bombs-6000kg
from "Polygon" magazine

Antonio · 31 March 2008

Thanks a lot Hesham and Borovik

hesham · 31 March 2008

My dear Pometablav,

I can't translate this Russian language for that project.
http://www.navylabs.ru/avia/bartini/
And also the T-203,who can translate ?.
http://www.traditio.ru/index.php/%D0%A0%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%82_%D0%9B%D1%8E%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87_%D0%91%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8

borovik · 31 March 2008

E-57
MVA-62 (pre VVA-14)
VVA-14 under red stars
from: K.Udalov, G.Panatov, L.Fortinov "Airplan VVA-14" Avico

hesham · 1 April 2008

Hi,

the T-203 was variable sweep wing aircraft project,and I don't
sure about those Bartini projects,R-100,T-301,T-503 and A58.

Antonio · 1 April 2008

T-117 mock-up. The aircraft was cancelled before receiving its Ash-82 engines because Bartini OKB was closed.

Source: Red Star Volume 33. Antonov An-12. Yefim Gordon and Dimitriy Komissarov. Ed Midland

http://www.ianallanpublishing.com/product.php?productid=56234&cat=0&page=1

hesham · 21 December 2008

Hi,

the AL-40 was nuclear powered hydroplane of the 1960s,and look for this
strange concept of 1936.
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/lesser-known-experimental-aircraft-12754-2.html

ucon · 21 December 2008

Dear Antonio!
I have found in my archieve some technical descriptions and original albums of Bartni aircraft and projects. Also there is full list of aircraft (was sharing with P. Butowski some years ago), full list of scientific works, some papers from CC ICP and Bartini's hand-writing letter about what to do with his works and family after his death.
If you need missed info - contact directly.
I have tryied to attch. some pix - but today it was problem.
Regards

ucon · 21 December 2008

At last I have attached))

Antonio · 22 December 2008

Dear Ucon,

thank you very much for that great pics!

Best regards,

Antonio

ucon · 26 December 2008

Dear Antonio!
Special for you and for all - one page from Bartini MVA-62 original album.
Hope you will enjoy it.
Best reagards

Mark Nankivil · 30 December 2008

Very interesting images Ucon - thank you! By chance would you have drawings of the assault transport shown in the artwork you posted (with the armored vehicles leaving the aft ramp - Bartini 002)?

Enjoy the Day! Mark

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