Boeing Sonic Cruiser aka 'Project 20XX' aka 'Project Glacier'

flateric · 6 June 2006

I'm interested in Sonic Cruiser iterations 3-views, if any were published (AFAIK, design was very touchy security question for a long). I have all images from Cruiser-related 3 or so Boeing's patents, but want something more accurate. Thanks.

Matej · 7 June 2006

A little bit out of topic but interesting. First is supersonic business jet derived from sonic cruiser (Boeing´s propagation material) and second is what-if USAF tanker (internet).

Sentinel Chicken · 7 June 2006

The sonic cruiser tanker is purely fictional. That illustration was done by a friend of mine as a sort of tongue in cheek joke on an aviation model collectors' forum.

flateric · 8 June 2006

Some Boeing Sonic Cruiser-related patents in chronological order
http://www.google.com/patents?id=HBMPAAAAEBAJ&dq=d477,561

flateric · 8 June 2006

Note variety of almost-identical iterations with just slight differences.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=2ycPAAAAEBAJ&dq=d479,501

flateric · 8 June 2006

more and more...
http://www.google.com/patents?id=N3kUAAAAEBAJ&dq=6,938,854

flateric · 8 June 2006

'Haven't we forget patent something?' was a Boeing motto in the case. Final touch.

flateric · 9 October 2007

From Flight International on-line archives goes this notional Sonic Cruiser drawings based on first Boeing's pictures released in 2001

Matej · 14 October 2007

Will this help?

LowObservable · 15 October 2007

Back when Boeing was getting all excited about this ~~piece of c**p~~ magnificent design, this image turned up, in a NASA paper from 2000 - that is, almost a year before SC was announced.

SC was in my view derived from a supersonic design. Moreover, a Sukhoi-based supersonic design, since Boeing's BBJ team in 2004 admitted that the company had been working with Sukhoi for years.

However, even LO's legendary pentothol martinis were not enough to get anyone at Boeing to admit it.

flateric · 25 October 2007

Have found my old Sonic Cruiser model pics from MAKS 2001.

flateric · 25 October 2007

Matej said:
Will this help?

These are from interesting critical DLR paper entitled

The Sonic Cruiser – A Concept Analysis
Dr. Martin Hepperle
DLR Institute of Aerodynamics and Flow Technologies, DLR Braunschweig, Germany

Authors used published artist's renderings and a fistful of data that Boeing gave on Cruiser to analyze

"Abstract
Early in 2001 the Boeing company announced a new aircraft, the “Sonic Cruiser”. The most
impressive features of this new project were a range of up to 10’000 nautical miles, a cruise
Mach number above M = 0.95 and the claim of a large reduction in flight time.
A concept level study was undertaken to design and analyze a possible aircraft configuration.
One result of the study is the fact, that the reduction of flight time by increasing the cruise
Mach number to M = 0.98 is relatively small. A larger reduction of travel time seems to be
possible only by using direct point to point services instead of hub and spoke connections.
Another result is, that the claimed range would be very hard to reach."

http://www.dlr.de/as/Portaldata/5/Resources/dokumente/abteilungen/abt_ke/vorentwurf/hepperle-sonic-cruiser-paper.pdf

LowObservable · 25 October 2007

You had to post that horrible thing, didn't you?

flateric · 25 October 2007

Which thing exactly?

flateric · 26 October 2007

Sonic Cruiser tail with Honeywell's APU

red admiral · 29 October 2007

A model currently resides at the Rolls-Royce History Centre in Derby. I always wondered what it was, so thanks for telling me.

flateric · 29 October 2007

Wow! Are you somewhere nearby?

zhuravlik · 29 October 2007

Speaking of models..

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172554

Zhuravlik

red admiral · 30 October 2007

flateric said:
Wow! Are you somewhere nearby?

I live about an hour from Derby and had a nice guided tour around the history centre site in July. It was good to talk with the old engineers (mostly guys from 1950-60s now). Theres loads of stuff there that I didn't take pictures of, lots of rocket stuff that doesn't really interest me.

Other pictures, mainly engines can be found here;
http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c84/AviationImages/Rolls-Royce%20Vist/

LowObservable · 31 October 2007

Nice pics...
You do wonder whose idea it was to ship a V-3420 to the UK.. or what brilliant person decided that the first flight for the Clyde should be in the nose of a Wyvern...
Speaking of engines in odd places, anyone got the ghost of a scintilla of a clue how come a Napier Nomad ended up in the US National Air & Space Museum?

KJ_Lesnick · 24 April 2008

I remember hearing that Boeing's Sonic Cruiser design was actually based on a Russian SST design? Does anybody have any more information or pictures of the Russian design they swiped it from?

Kendra Lesnick

flateric · 25 April 2008

LO was talking of this his theory here http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,370.msg22124.html#msg22124
Are early Sonic Cruiser variants are inspired by Sukhoi S-51 (Pogosyan's 30-50 pax S-21 on steroids from late 80s - it's up to you to decide.

KJ_Lesnick · 26 April 2008

Thank you for your assistance.

Kendra Lesnick

flateric · 5 May 2008

LowObservable said:
SC was in my view derived from a supersonic design. Moreover, a Sukhoi-based supersonic design, since Boeing's BBJ team in 2004 admitted that the company had been working with Sukhoi for years.
However, even LO's legendary pentothol martinis were not enough to get anyone at Boeing to admit it.

This is taken from not-so-fresh Sukhoi presentation, slide entitled 'Boeing's view'. No chemistry needed=)
Courtesy www.mati-fatal.ru

flateric · 5 May 2008

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,370.msg34293.html#msg34293

Skybolt · 6 May 2008

Some correction/integration. Actually the sonic cruiser look-alike appeared on the cover of the NASA Office of Aeronautics Annual Report for 1999 "IS" a Boeing concept, more precisely configuration model 2154, one of the last developed during the HSCT program. The image published was sanitized, i.e. modified to mask some features of the actual design. It was also called HISCAT, for Highly Integrated Supersonic Cruise Aircraft Technology, and it was actually a SST. The planform was typical of various HSCT study configurations, notably the PTC (Preliminary Technology Concept of 1996, which enjoyed the canard too). The novelty was in the engine placement, behind the wing and no more on the wing (this resolved some flutter problems). Actually this solution has been tested a lot of times during the 90's but back then it violated the ground rules for the HSR (High Speed Research) configuration studies.

Skybolt · 6 May 2008

I don't know how to cross post, so see here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4263.msg34296.html#msg34296

flateric · 25 September 2008

Chernobyl's Sonic Cruiser...Boeing 2002 patent
http://www.google.com/patents/pdf/Tri_body_aircraft_and_methods_for_their_.pdf?id=eEMUAAAAEBAJ&output=pdf&sig=ACfU3U2p3QL0PYzcLHvDS529cZNC6GulFA

flateric · 25 September 2008

Well, was always wondering where Boeing was going to put MLG on the beast...voila...but to put it somewhere, some tricks with engine nacelles were made...and probably this is further stage of SC evolution that it have made before going to dustbin...

LowObservable · 26 September 2008

Good grief...

Someone's been spending way too much time here: http://zigzagseattle.com/

A few of Murray's specials will do that too you.

flateric · 26 September 2008

Well, the three-body SC was found by Hesham almost a year ago http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2420.msg24148.html#msg24148

CFE · 28 September 2008

I noticed that in the final Sonic Cruiser renderings (circa Summer 2002, in time for Farnborough,) the Sonic Cruiser had lost the cant on the vertical stabilizers and lost the dihedral on the canards. Has any rationale for these design changes been given>

I must admit that when BSC was unveiled in early 2001, I was very excited. That was before I started taking aero engineering classes and didn't know how bad transonic drag really was. In hindsight, I think Boeing was wise to kill the design off so early into the design cycle. A true SST may be in the cards someday, but there's little to be gained from cruising in the transonic regime.

flateric · 28 September 2008

I've tried to collect [some] of renderings, showing Sonic Cruiser evolution. File names show year and a month of BCA image release date.

flateric · 28 September 2008

...more

flateric · 18 November 2008

More severe SC mutations from Everett guys...
Boeing's 2004 US patent #6705567
http://www.google.com/patents?id=QdcPAAAAEBAJ&dq

First one would perfectly fit in Casino Royale...and the second is looking like highly surprised dolphin.

LowObservable · 18 November 2008

The "deck and a half" was also seen on the 767 stretch designs that preceded the 777. The problem was that if you put in a full upper deck you ran out of space for the bags.

flateric · 18 November 2008

LO, just in case - don't you know what was this high-subsonic 'coke bottle'? Actually, it's from the same patent.

gral_rj · 19 November 2008

What little I know(remembered from a Flight International article) is that Boeing presented a SC configuration with a conventional mid-fuselage mounted wing in answer to some of the prospective clients, who disliked the wing and engine arrangement of the Sonic Cruiser. That was shortly(1, 2 months) before canceling the SC entirely, IIRC. The conventional wing arrangement dictated a coke-bottle fuselage, which was just what Boeing didn't want - the placement of wings and canards was chosen because, among other things, Boeing wanted to have a constant diameter fuselage(easier and cheaper to build), while still using area rule.

flateric · 19 November 2008

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/2002/2002%20-%202818.html?search=sonic%20cruiser

LowObservable · 19 November 2008

Yes, I suspect the "coke bottle" - which looks like some early-1970s supercritical wing "7X7" studies - was there to underline what was seen as a key feature of the Chronic Snoozer, which was the parallel-sided body.

Boeing Sonic Cruiser aka 'Project 20XX' aka 'Project Glacier'

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