Messerschmitt Me 328 variants and projects
- Thread starter moin1900
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Wingknut
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Hi Moin1900,
Sorry but I strongly suspect that any supersonic Me 328 is a non-starter and that the image you posted is of a purely hypothetical "What if?" model. For a start, the design depicted seems to retain the two Argus pulse-jets of the (solidly subsonic) standard Me 328. Anyway, the largely wooden construction of the Me 328 seems a funny place to start from if designing a supersonic aircraft. So, while I could be wrong about this, I reckon that it's not a figher, a bomber or a kamikaze, but a made-up story.
Cheers,
'Wingknut'.
Sorry but I strongly suspect that any supersonic Me 328 is a non-starter and that the image you posted is of a purely hypothetical "What if?" model. For a start, the design depicted seems to retain the two Argus pulse-jets of the (solidly subsonic) standard Me 328. Anyway, the largely wooden construction of the Me 328 seems a funny place to start from if designing a supersonic aircraft. So, while I could be wrong about this, I reckon that it's not a figher, a bomber or a kamikaze, but a made-up story.
Cheers,
'Wingknut'.
pometablava said:
You're not going to get a supersonic *anything* powered by cheap pulsejets.
pometablava said:
Of course not!
Performances are similar to the standard Me 328 B.
Its peculiar shape comes from the need to transport in a small Regulus style container.
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i look i books to find some Info :
Me 328 start as Me P.1079 in July 1941 by Dipl.-Ing. Felix Kracht
Idea was a Fighter or Bomber in Mistel configuration
Bomber
as Mistel configuration with 1000 kg Bomb (later 1400 kg) and no Engine
the carrier plan makes a Stuka attack and drop glide Bomber.
later the Me 328 design was add 2 x V-1 Argusrohren Engine.
because they cheaper as piston or Jet Engine
Bordjäger (Parasite Fighter)
one Me 328 A (with 2 or 4 Argusrohren) on top of He-177 A-5 or Me 264 Bomber (Mistel configuration)
major problem only fuel for 30 minute flight but the Me 328 can be Refuel by docking on His Bomber!
this version has extendable wing as variable wing geomtry
2 x MG 151/200 with 200 bullets
Schnellkampf Flugzeug (fast Interceptor)
same as above but the Mistel carrier bring Me 328 A, 150 km range to Target.
even as Aircraft for Submarines !
German U-boat carry in container a Me 328A (like Regulus Sub)
the idea was drop, until beginn 1943 the SS take back up
as "Selbstopferung" SO-Flugzeug (German Kamikaze)
Me 328 B cheap disposable, one way Aircraft with 2400 kg Explosive
no extendable wing.
Source:
Geheimprojekte der DFS (german Language)
Horst Lommel
Motorbuch verlag ISBN 3-613-02072-6
Me 328 start as Me P.1079 in July 1941 by Dipl.-Ing. Felix Kracht
Idea was a Fighter or Bomber in Mistel configuration
Bomber
as Mistel configuration with 1000 kg Bomb (later 1400 kg) and no Engine
the carrier plan makes a Stuka attack and drop glide Bomber.
later the Me 328 design was add 2 x V-1 Argusrohren Engine.
because they cheaper as piston or Jet Engine
Bordjäger (Parasite Fighter)
one Me 328 A (with 2 or 4 Argusrohren) on top of He-177 A-5 or Me 264 Bomber (Mistel configuration)
major problem only fuel for 30 minute flight but the Me 328 can be Refuel by docking on His Bomber!
this version has extendable wing as variable wing geomtry
2 x MG 151/200 with 200 bullets
Schnellkampf Flugzeug (fast Interceptor)
same as above but the Mistel carrier bring Me 328 A, 150 km range to Target.
even as Aircraft for Submarines !
German U-boat carry in container a Me 328A (like Regulus Sub)
the idea was drop, until beginn 1943 the SS take back up
as "Selbstopferung" SO-Flugzeug (German Kamikaze)
Me 328 B cheap disposable, one way Aircraft with 2400 kg Explosive
no extendable wing.
Source:
Geheimprojekte der DFS (german Language)
Horst Lommel
Motorbuch verlag ISBN 3-613-02072-6
W
Wingknut
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That's very interesting - the sub-launched Me 328 with retractable wings is (as you've no doubt gathered) a new one on me. Fine images and lots of useful data though.
Maybe I was a bit quick to reject the whole thing out of hand but I was put off by the attribution of supersonic speed to a twin-pulsejet glued-together wooden airframe. (After all, the whole point about the Me 328 was that it was meant to be cheap and semi-disposable.)
I was also put off when I looked up the model-company responsible for the conversion kit and found that they offer a conversion for a "Heinkel He162Z Volkzwilling". Maybe I shouldn't stick my neck out too far but surely a "Zwillng" He-162 is fictitious? (The only references I can find seem to class it as a "What if?" modeller's project.)
All best,
Wingknut
Maybe I was a bit quick to reject the whole thing out of hand but I was put off by the attribution of supersonic speed to a twin-pulsejet glued-together wooden airframe. (After all, the whole point about the Me 328 was that it was meant to be cheap and semi-disposable.)
I was also put off when I looked up the model-company responsible for the conversion kit and found that they offer a conversion for a "Heinkel He162Z Volkzwilling". Maybe I shouldn't stick my neck out too far but surely a "Zwillng" He-162 is fictitious? (The only references I can find seem to class it as a "What if?" modeller's project.)
All best,
Wingknut
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Wingknut said:
that like the V-1 Zwilling pure Fiction !
Internet is full of that Stuff
Zizi6785
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Orionblamblam said:
Whoa. That's not true. The pulsejets could be used for climbing to height and then they, along with the wings, could be jettisoned. It would probably require a larger airframe to get high enough, but supersonic speeds could be obtained in a prolonged dive.
By that reasoning, one can claim manned supersonic flight powered by *balloons.* However, one must use common sense at some point.
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Wingknut
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Excellent posts, Justo - as ever.
At the risk of going slightly off-topic, my understanding is that the origins of the Me 328 / Me P.1079 project lay in a study for a heavy bomber (P.1073A) which was to carry three parasite jet fighters (P.1073B). Below is the only image I can find that shows both the P.1073A carrier and (hard to spot at bottom right) the P.1073B parasite. (I also attach a three-view of the P.1073B. Both images are quite easy to find though.)
All best.
At the risk of going slightly off-topic, my understanding is that the origins of the Me 328 / Me P.1079 project lay in a study for a heavy bomber (P.1073A) which was to carry three parasite jet fighters (P.1073B). Below is the only image I can find that shows both the P.1073A carrier and (hard to spot at bottom right) the P.1073B parasite. (I also attach a three-view of the P.1073B. Both images are quite easy to find though.)
All best.
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Wingknut said:
Sorry no more images of P.1073A in my files
I found this original photo in an abum, on a museum warehouse shelf in U.S.
According to the German museum that purchased the album from me, they believed that the album had been compiled by someone who worked on experimental aircraft for the Luftwaffe during WWII. They assume he brought this abum of experimental aircraft to U.S. after the war, to show projects he worked on, or was familiar with, for employment purposes. Much of the album was of rockets and missiles and many were marked "Geheim" (secret) and had circa 1943 dates and Luftwaffe stamps on the backs. Anyone have any data on this Me 163 with external rocket engines? (I assume there is another one on the other side?)
According to the German museum that purchased the album from me, they believed that the album had been compiled by someone who worked on experimental aircraft for the Luftwaffe during WWII. They assume he brought this abum of experimental aircraft to U.S. after the war, to show projects he worked on, or was familiar with, for employment purposes. Much of the album was of rockets and missiles and many were marked "Geheim" (secret) and had circa 1943 dates and Luftwaffe stamps on the backs. Anyone have any data on this Me 163 with external rocket engines? (I assume there is another one on the other side?)
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Nice picture, but it has a wrong marking.
It shows one of the 7 prototypes of the German parasite aircraft/suicide aircraft Messerschmitt Me 328 B, powered by two Argus pulsejets.
It shows one of the 7 prototypes of the German parasite aircraft/suicide aircraft Messerschmitt Me 328 B, powered by two Argus pulsejets.
Thank you both for correcting this. It now makes me wonder if the hand-written caption may be for the photo that was above this photo in the album, and not for this one.
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That me 328 is on early study for cheap and easy to build Bomber suport fighter
made from wood powered by two Argus pulsengine from V1
with extending wing in disk section
carry is this version of me 328 on back of big bomber
it uncouple from and attack enermy fighter and return to Bomber and dock on it back
more here
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3563.0.html
One moment, NAZI "Star Trek" FIGHTER ?!
Schulz don't tells me, Zhey...
Jaaaa Herr General, Zhey got ze wrong TV Zhow
made from wood powered by two Argus pulsengine from V1
with extending wing in disk section
carry is this version of me 328 on back of big bomber
it uncouple from and attack enermy fighter and return to Bomber and dock on it back
more here
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3563.0.html
One moment, NAZI "Star Trek" FIGHTER ?!
Schulz don't tells me, Zhey...
Jaaaa Herr General, Zhey got ze wrong TV Zhow
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The drawing has the caption "Complete model with base plate, railway embankment and take-off trolley".
So I would assume, it was meant to test launching the Me 328 directly from railway tracks. Haven't heard
of this method before, but it seems logical.
So I would assume, it was meant to test launching the Me 328 directly from railway tracks. Haven't heard
of this method before, but it seems logical.
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Jemiba said:
They must do this, it's logical way, the two Argus pulsengine need 150 mph (240 km/h) to start operate.
Using or build V1 like Launch-rails make little sense, they were target by RAF and USAAF bombers.
launch from Big aircraft had problem, lack of them and RAF and USAAF air dominance.
using the German Railway network is ingenious, especial if they use rail tunnels as contstution factory or hangars for Me 328
under this aspect a another feature for Me 328, make now perfect sense: it's retractable wings
for move the Me 328 into Railway tunnel with. here you got space of 350 cm on rail, while the Me 328 with retracted wing is 320 cm wide.
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Retractable wings, to my opinion, would only have been necessary, if the
aircraft was intended to land back again, to be used at a later date. For
one-way missions saving resources (raw materials and man hour) should have
been predominant, so why retract the wings, instead of simply fold or
plug on them ?
But your drawing carries the inscription "Bordflugzeug", so maybe it was
a kind of fighter or fighter bomber ?
aircraft was intended to land back again, to be used at a later date. For
one-way missions saving resources (raw materials and man hour) should have
been predominant, so why retract the wings, instead of simply fold or
plug on them ?
But your drawing carries the inscription "Bordflugzeug", so maybe it was
a kind of fighter or fighter bomber ?
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