USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA, ASFS news

BDF said:
it’s much like the early ATF concept drawings as none looked anything like the F-22 or YF-23.
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I'm not sure; The early ATF concept drawings were not fancy drawings but real configurations that simply did not make it to the final stages; This means they were at least practical; You have to take the actual context for reference, i'm not quite sure you can compare with the 80's even if the actual NG TacAir program is not well defined and thus could change;
It is true that for example boeing NGAD designs changed a lot but they were done on the manufacturer iniative while for NG TacAir this is different, you have an RFP issued;
So i think Boeing, NG, and LM concepts may be not so far away from what we'll see, or at least, they are practical;
 
flateric said:
from Lockheed Martin Aeronautical Systems 2012 calendar - via Clindits
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Is it just me, or does that design have more than a bit of BAE Systems influence in it's make-up?
 
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2012/01/picture-lockheed-reveals-conce.html

Lockheed Martin's 2012 calendar -- which your blogger received in the mail but casually deposited, unopened, in the trash -- contained the company's first concept design for a sixth generation fighter to succeed the F-22 after 2030.

Call her "Miss February".

The US Air Force has already started the search for the F-X fighter to replace the F-22 after 2030. Boeing and Northrop Grumman have already revealed their concept designs. But the conceptual ideas of the USAF's sole fighter supplier had been a closely guarded mystery. Conceptual aircraft designs should not be mistaken for prototype blueprints, but they do offer some insight into the starting assumptions and philosophies.

We asked Lockheed to describe the philosophy behind this concept drawing. Here is the company's emailed response in full:

This concept originates from our Advanced Development Programs group called the Skunk Works®. The Skunk Works primary objective is to aggressively pursue next generation technology programs and conduct research and development that will allow it to rapidly respond to customer needs. U.S. 5th generation fighters are now operational with the F-22 in the USAF and F-35 soon to be operational for USAF, USN, USMC and our international partners. As with the 4th generation fighters (F-15, F-16, F-18), 5th Gen is poised for growth, and will go through a process of capability upgrades over their service lives. As such, they will be operationally relevant for decades to come. Even with that, it is time to start looking at the technologies that will provide the next quantum leap in capabilities for the next generation of fighters (IOC ~ 2030+). Simply removing the pilot from an aircraft or introducing incremental improvements in signature and range does not constitute a generational leap in capability. These improvements are already being looked at for our 5th generation fighters.



Future fighter requirements are not set and will depend on assessments of future threats that may emerge in the 2030 time frame. Greatly increased speed, longer range, extended loiter times, multi-spectral stealth, ubiquitous situation awareness, and self-healing structures and systems are some of the possible technologies we envision for the next generation of fighter aircraft. Next generation fighter capabilities will be driven by game changing technological breakthroughs in the areas of propulsion, materials, power generation, sensors, and weapons that are yet to be fully imagined. This will require another significant investment in research and development from a standpoint of both time and money. We will continue to investigate technologies that demonstrate great promise, and work closely with our customers to define the future operational concepts and requirements that the next generation of fighter aircraft must fulfill.
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Can we expect this to have an automated backup for OBOGS failure, or will there be another brass ring dangling beneath the seat? :)

On the plus side, does the mention of "multi-spectral stealth" mean that visual stealth capabilities will finally emerge into the white world?
 
James E. Auer, director of the Center for U.S.-Japan Studies and Cooperation at Vanderbilt University said " 日米両国で足並みを揃え、日本がどの航空機を選定したとしても、第6世代航空機の現実的な共同開発についての協議を開始することが重要である。" which can be translated as "It is important for Japan and the US to start a discussion about co-developing a 6th-generation fighter" at a seminar held in October 2011 at the Research Institute of Economy, Trade and Industry (RIETI), a think tank of the Minister of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI) of Japan.


http://www.rieti.go.jp/jp/events/11100701/summary.html
 
I wonder if a photoshop proficient individual would be so kind as to remove the pelican tail, positioning the wings slightly more aft, and incorporate canards "on" the intakes. That's a more probable configuration.
 
tacitblue said:
I wonder if a photoshop proficient individual would be so kind as to remove the pelican tail, positioning the wings slightly more aft, and incorporate canards "on" the intakes. That's a more probable configuration.
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Not really.
 
Ogami musashi said:
dorsal intake or not so dorsal intake?
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Okay, so now we are looking at what look like DSI intakes. If they are indeed DSI intakes they're far more highly swept than any I've ever seen. Where is the initial oblique shock supposed to form on them for supersonic flow compression/retardation?
 
LOT'S of patents have been filled recently by both boeing and LM on air induction precisely to get rid of dsi inlets; LM has been very active on plasma research recently; together with advanced aft cockpit/LERX integration this is why dorsal intakes are now on table (you even have some projects of tangent intakes I.E intake not facing the flow phat but tangent to them).
 
sferrin said:
tacitblue said:
I wonder if a photoshop proficient individual would be so kind as to remove the pelican tail, positioning the wings slightly more aft, and incorporate canards "on" the intakes. That's a more probable configuration.
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Not really.
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Yeah I don't buy that either. What is interesting is they have choosen, at least with this concept, to retain a lateral intake design instead of going witht he dorsal intake direction. The latter is clearly aimed at low broaband signatures so one wonders if that is possible with this configuration.
 
Well, i would wait to have a higer res image to be sure it is not a complete dorsal intake (you have black zone under the nose too).


That's a clever arrangement though;
 
Lockheed Martin Skunk Works has released an image of their notional 6th-Generation (post F-22) fighter concept. The image was included in a calendar that LM gave out to journalists. I was unable to find anything regarding the design on the either the main Lockheed Martin or the LM Skunk Works website. Interesting design though. The links to the story from Flightglobal follow:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/lockheed-reveals-bold-technology-plans-with-6th-gen-fighter-concept-366533/

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2012/01/picture-lockheed-reveals-conce.html


Ipilot
NC
USA
 
Let's be optimistic and assume that we might (a) have a 6th gen fighter program at all and (b) first flight of the prototype will occur within the next 20 years. A quick glance at our own ATF and pre-ATF topics suggests the actual air vehicle will not at all resemble any of the artists' conceptions, so why not relax and enjoy the view. :)
 
The only certainty I can conclude is that it won't be designated the F-28. ;) Also am I the only one getting the idea that this aircraft is too small to house a good-sized weapons payload due to how flat it is and the nose is a little oddly shaped to house a radar? I think I should just go with GeorgeA and say that we should take this design with a huge grain of salt as a production model will certainly look almost completely unlike this.
 
Can we not make USAF lead agency on this one? How about giving USN a crack?
 
AAAdrone said:
The only certainty I can conclude is that it won't be designated the F-28. ;) Also am I the only one getting the idea that this aircraft is too small to house a good-sized weapons payload due to how flat it is and the nose is a little oddly shaped to house a radar?
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What would "the f19" look like if it were a concept in a 1984 LM calendar? This drawing is very pretty but not much use.


I assume it has a conceptual DE weapons payload and a conceptual distributed-node radar integrated into the multi-spectral skin material etc etc. it's powered by unicorn tears.
 
That is a technologie concept drawing, not a pretty drawing; Early ATF drawing (i mean the official ones) were not fancy drawing but real configurations; The flat nose is a new feature compensated by distributed sensors.
 
Gridlock said:
AAAdrone said:
The only certainty I can conclude is that it won't be designated the F-28. ;) Also am I the only one getting the idea that this aircraft is too small to house a good-sized weapons payload due to how flat it is and the nose is a little oddly shaped to house a radar?
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What would "the f19" look like if it were a concept in a 1984 LM calendar? This drawing is very pretty but not much use.


I assume it has a conceptual DE weapons payload and a conceptual distributed-node radar integrated into the multi-spectral skin material etc etc. it's powered by unicorn tears.
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And it transforms into a robot ;D
 
Northrop Grumman's signature concept of kite shape for scaling up the wings to fit different type of missions and requirements
 
I see changes in wing span between the two from low to high Aspect Ratio thanks to a wingtip swap or mod. Not exactly fancy shape-shifting nanotech but such an ability to scale the wings like that will help make an aircraft that's highly efficient and effective in all major flight regimes. Just add in a nice variable cycle engine (or any other engine system that can be optimized for highly performance/efficiency for said flight regimes) and voila, The ultimate fighter.
 
16e0fa5ddfc5.jpg
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This is about networking a piloted 6th generation fighter with similarly shaped, presumably smaller unmanned versions of the same, right? Where is this picture taken from? And does anyone know more about this concept?
 
was taken from a presentation at the AFA convention in sept 2011.


The first one is from a NG artist.




the AFA presentation is presumably for F/A-XX (US navy) while the first is a generic concept.
 
Triton said:
Lockheed Martin's 2012 calendar -- which your blogger received in the mail but casually deposited, unopened, in the trash -- contained the company's first concept design for a sixth generation fighter to succeed the F-22 after 2030.
Call her "Miss February".
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I have a personal theory about this piece of artwork, for what it's worth. It seems from looking at the picture, and especially the cockpit area, that the image was flattened, either as a result of wrong image manipulation (capture from a 4:3 image that was stretched unto a 16:9 rez screen for instance) or on purpose to make it look more slender and dramatic.

So here is a comparison between the original artwork (top) and the same once a 100% (width) by 140% (height) ratio has been applied. To me it seems a lot more realistic that way, and shows even more resemblance to McDonnell Douglas's and Northrop's YF-23 design.

Also, the second image shows the same pics with +1.89 gamma correction applied. This clearly exposes the design as having LATERAL, not dorsal intakes.
 

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Stargazer2006 said:
Triton said:
Lockheed Martin's 2012 calendar -- which your blogger received in the mail but casually deposited, unopened, in the trash -- contained the company's first concept design for a sixth generation fighter to succeed the F-22 after 2030.
Call her "Miss February".
Click to expand...

I have a personal theory about this piece of artwork, for what it's worth. It seems from looking at the picture, and especially the cockpit area, that the image was flattened, either as a result of wrong image manipulation (capture from a 4:3 image that was stretched unto a 16:9 rez screen for instance) or on purpose to make it look more slender and dramatic.

So here is a comparison between the original artwork (top) and the same once a 100% (width) by 140% (height) ratio has been applied. To me it seems a lot more realistic that way, and shows even more resemblance to McDonnell Douglas's and Northrop's YF-23 design.

Also, the second image shows the same pics with +1.89 gamma correction applied. This clearly exposes the design as having LATERAL, not dorsal intakes.
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Interesting theory but I doubt it. Unless you had a manager do it, it's not THAT hard to get things right proportionally, and secondly, can you say "big ass hump" there in your "fixed" image?
 
It's interesting how Northrop's advise about the designs of a jet for a movie could come out so similar to their own official PR, 6 years later.
As for morphing wings; the movie version had aeroelastic tech which was utilised to create control surfaces from flexing of the wing.

500px-StealthEDI.jpg

edi1.jpg
 
Dragon029 said:
It's interesting how Northrop's advise about the designs of a jet for a movie could come out so similar to their own official PR, 6 years later.
As for morphing wings; the movie version had aeroelastic tech which was utilised to create control surfaces from flexing of the wing.
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More likely they just said "hey do we still have that graphic around? Well slap THAT on the press release."

Mod edit: Do not overqoute! This is also valid for other members. http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6659.0.html
 
Ogami musashi said:
was taken from a presentation at the AFA convention in sept 2011.
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Are these presentations online? I have tried a search but did not find anything. Thanks for any links.
 
morphing wings or (dare I say it) switchblade style forward folding wings?
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I originally thought they were morphing, but then I was skeptical about whether the wings would have to increase in mass in order to change like what may be shown in the drawing assuming camber thickness and other airfoil properties aren't changed. It's kind of hard to tell exactly how the change in span and aspect ratio occurs.

What I can tell is that in both pictures the wings have a point on the span where there is a line indicating where the wing could fold about but it is also worth noting that the aircraft shape looks completely consistent across both graphics in terms of how the fuselage looks and the wings look from the roots to the "folding line". It appears to be the wingtips that are the only variable in the equation in terms of looks, camber thickness, span, chord length, etc.

There doesn't appear to be any glove housing the necessary mechanisms for rotating the wings forward and where the wing folds into isn't shown anywhere. That and folding wings are an old idea that have their share of problems such as increased weight, maintenance intensity, etc. As for morphing, I may have to side with morphing after recently looking at various ideas for how a wing could morph in a Materials and Design paper.

It is possible that the "folding line" is actually a sheathe for a telescoping material that is free to elongate itself at the push of a switch. This would mean that the increase in span would decrease the camber thickness in order to conserve mass and allow the wing to fit inside of itself in a telescope manner. The changes in the wingtip shape from a tapered wingtip to a trapezoid can also be attributed to various smart materials, piezoelectric actuators and other wing-morphing technologies.

@Gridlock Every major defense contractor has speculated that the next generation of aircraft must be highly efficient in every major flight regime of a fighter. This means from subsonic to supersonic (high Mach 2 or possibly better) as well as a very wide range of altitudes. It's supposed to put 4th and 5th gen fighters to shame in every conceivable way in terms of this criterion.

Wing morphing is just the future way to achieve this without the complexity and weight penalties associated with complex folding mechanisms. We can also expect to see highly advanced propulsion systems (I'm thinking variable cycle engines that blow away even the YF-120) to be used for the same reason of making the 6th generation aircraft have vastly superior range, speed, mission radius, etc. compared to contemporary fighters.

http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2009/October%202009/1009fighter.aspx

Generation 5: All-aspect stealth with internal weapons, extreme agility, full-sensor fusion, integrated avionics, some or full supercruise (F-22, F-35).

Potential Generation 6: extreme stealth; efficient in all flight regimes (subsonic to multi-Mach); possible “morphing” capability; smart skins; highly networked; extremely sensitive sensors; optionally manned; directed energy weapons.
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jjnodice said:
Ogami musashi said:
was taken from a presentation at the AFA convention in sept 2011.
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Are these presentations online? I have tried a search but did not find anything. Thanks for any links.
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Unfortunately...nothing seems online.
 

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