Kawanishi N1K "Shiden" unbuilt variants and derivatives

swallow · 29 January 2008

Hello everyone
I'm searching for a picture or drawing of the N1K2-K Shiden Kai Rensen.
A two seat trainer of the Japanese Rex / George fighter.

lark · 29 January 2008

Evening Swallow,

There's a side view on the airwarfareforum.
Post by Bernhard on Sat.26 Jan. 2008

Good luck.

Justo Miranda · 29 January 2008

swallow said:
Hello everyone
I'm searching for a picture or drawing of the N1K2-K Shiden Kai Rensen.
A two seat trainer of the Japanese Rex / George fighter.

From Air Pictorial Jan-July 1959

swallow · 29 January 2008

Many Thanks Justo

airman · 29 January 2008

about the other projects there are something ?

borovik · 30 January 2008

from "Wing of the Native land" 12.1993
!!! Thereof, the source follows that tailplane was on area more.

blackkite · 11 January 2012

Hi! Kawanishi(川西) Shiden(紫電) and Shiden-kai(紫電改) variant.
Source : Maru magazine February 2012

紫電試作一号機：Shiden prototype No.1
・Without antenna pole
・Flying tail type horizontal tail stabilizer
・The engine cowl shape was different from mass production model
・The propeller spinner shape was different from mass production model
・Without wing armament
・Concentrated exhaust pipe
紫電一一型甲：Shiden 11type kou
・Without nose 7.7mm gun(only hole existed)
・With wing armament(four long barrel 20mm cannon,two were gun pod type installation)
・Bullet proof front glass
紫電一一型乙：Shiden 11type otsu
・Changed the location of nose 7.7mm gun
・All 20mm cannons were installed in the wing
・Partial model had rectangle horizontal tail stabilizer
・Reinforced bomb carriers
紫電 J 試作機：Shiden J experimental model
・It had a mid air rocket booster package combined with 500kg bomb carrier for special attack
mission. (expected speed increase was 60kt.Kugisho also studied same booster package for
Ryuisei. Resent published Osprey publishing “Kamikaze” has the picture of this booster
package.)

紫電改試作一号機：Shiden-kai prototype No.1 plane
・Different Cowl shape compared with mass production model
・Without antenna pole
・Different exhaust pipe layout compared with mass production model
・No armament
紫電改二一型：Shiden-kai 21 type
・Different cowl shape compared with prototype model
・Different exhaust pipe layout compared with prptptype model
紫電改一（三一型）：Shiden-kai 1 (31type)
・Add 13mm machine gun
・Extend the length before fire tight bulkhead
・Reinforced bomb carriers
・13% smaller vertical tail stabilizer
紫電改二（三二型）：Shiden-kai 2(32type)
・Carrier type, exchanged propeller
・Movable front wind shield upper part
・Reinforced after fuselage
・ Added hook for carrier landing
紫電改五（二五型）：Shiden-kai 5(25 type)
・Exchange engine from Nakajima NK9 Homare(誉) to Mitsubishih MK9(A20 or Ha43) to increase
performance same as Reppu(烈風)　
・Enlarged propeller diameter to 3.6m
紫電改鋼製化型：Shiden-kai with steel structure
・It had steel structure for save aluminum
・Extended wing tip for weight increase

blackkite · 12 January 2012

Hi! Shiden-kai prototype No.1 aircraft's tentative instruction manual.

http://www.jacar.go.jp/DAS/meta/listPhoto?IS_STYLE=default&REFCODE=A03032263000&TYPE=jpeg

前のﾍﾟｰｼへﾞ：go to the previous page
次のページへ：go to the next page
印刷用ページ：for printing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89vI7B3KEWs

airman · 14 January 2012

blackkite said:
Hi! Shiden-kai prototype No.1 aircraft's tentative instruction manual.

http://www.jacar.go.jp/DAS/meta/listPhoto?IS_STYLE=default&REFCODE=A03032263000&TYPE=jpeg

前のﾍﾟｰｼへﾞ：go to the previous page
次のページへ：go to the next page
印刷用ページ：for printing

nice, i have recognized one Seiran http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aichi_M6A

blackkite · 23 February 2013

Hi! Shiden-kai instruction manual(original).
http://www.jacar.go.jp/DAS/meta/listPhoto?IS_STYLE=default&REFCODE=A03032263000&TYPE=jpeg

Pelzig · 24 February 2013

There are actually three files associated with this manual. Search using "川西航空機" and you should get all three on the first page, 2,3, and 4.

blackkite said:
Hi! Shiden-kai instruction manual(original).
http://www.jacar.go.jp/DAS/meta/listPhoto?IS_STYLE=default&REFCODE=A03032263000&TYPE=jpeg

hesham · 5 September 2013

Hi,

here is the Kawanishi N1K little known variants,two from them are a projects.

Jemiba · 6 September 2013

External differences of the N1K3-J to the N1K2-J, would have been quite marginal, for the
fuselage mounted guns I had no other idea, than an installation similar to the A6M.

(spoiled drawing from http://themekgpproject.com/_posted_files_/K-images/kawanishi_n1k2_3v.jpg )

blackkite · 6 September 2013

Stargazer2006 said:
The E14Y "Glen" has been moved to the Aerospace section where it belongs.

This includes the original project, but it would have been silly to separate them...

Please also enjoy Aerospace section for E14Y. ;D

Shiden-kai
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawanishi_N1K

hesham · 6 September 2013

Jemiba said:
External differences of the N1K3-J to the N1K2-J, would have been quite marginal, for the
fuselage mounted guns I had no other idea, than an installation similar to the A6M.

(spoiled drawing from http://themekgpproject.com/_posted_files_/K-images/kawanishi_n1k2_3v.jpg )

Great find my dear Jemiba,

I think,it's hard to find a drawings to N1K4-J and N1K5-J.

hesham · 6 September 2013

Also,

N1K3-A was a single seat carrierbased version of N1K3-J,remained a project
only.

Piper106 · 6 September 2013

Little confused about a couple of issues with later variants of the Kawanishi N1K.

- Was the N1K4 supposed to have the engine moved forward 15 cm like the N1K3 or not??

- Post #279 contains a clipping that indicates the N1K5 was going to be powered with the Mitsubishi Kasei 14 cylinder engine. I have seen other references that indicate the N1K5 was to be powered by the Mitsubishi MK9 18 cylinder engine. Comments on which engine installation was actually intended????

hesham · 7 September 2013

Hi Piper,

for the first question,I think not,the N1K4-J was developed from N1K2-J,and
not from N1K3-J.

blackkite · 25 September 2013

Hi!
Sources
(1) Japanese wikipedia
(2) FAMOUS AIRPLANES OF THE WORLD No124 KYOFU, SHIDEN, SHIDENKAI, ISBN978-4-89319-158-8, Bunrindo,Tokyo,5/6/2010
N1K5-J's nose was like a Grumman F8F's one.
Mitsubishi HA-43 engine was MK9.

windswords · 25 September 2013

Blackkite,

As always great great illustrations. One question: if the N1KJ3 had it's engine moved forward 150mm then would not the overall length of the airplane be increased? The specifications show that the overall length is still 9.346 meters.

Jemiba · 25 September 2013

windswords said:
.. if the N1KJ3 had it's engine moved forward 150mm then would not the overall length of the airplane be increased? The specifications show that the overall length is still 9.346 meters.

I the drawing, it seems to have been considered:

windswords · 25 September 2013

I noticed that too Jemiba - the drawing shows the extra length but the specifications do not. Typographical error I guess.

blackkite · 25 September 2013

windswords said:
Blackkite,

As always great great illustrations. One question: if the N1KJ3 had it's engine moved forward 150mm then would not the overall length of the airplane be increased? The specifications show that the overall length is still 9.346 meters.

Hummm....... Good question! Give me time.

hesham · 25 September 2013

blackkite said:
Hi!
Sources
(1) Japanese wikipedia
(2) FAMOUS AIRPLANES OF THE WORLD No124 KYOFU, SHIDEN, SHIDENKAI, ISBN978-4-89319-158-8, Bunrindo,Tokyo,5/6/2010
N1K5-J's nose was like Grumman F8F's one.
Mitsubishi HA-43 engine was MK9.

Nice Info and drawings my dear Blackkite.

Jemiba · 26 September 2013

Cool animation, thank you !
One question ( although OT) and maybe just nitpicking: I have some difficulties with reading the subtitles,
maybe several flight of Shiden-Kai are shown, but at about 2:00 they jettison their droptanks ... but I saw
them taking off without. And, and that's a more serious question, at 2:30 the large formation of Hellcats
jetison theirs .. starting with the leading aircraft at the top. Looks great, but would severly endanger the
folowing aircraft. Were there fixed procedures to prevent such incidents ?

blackkite · 26 September 2013

Hi Jens!
This video described 343 Kokutai (航空隊 : Flying corps) air battle in 1945.
Your questions are too hard for me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawanishi_N1K
http://wgordon.web.wesleyan.edu/kamikaze/books/related/sakaida/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbZxv3HumeM

Jemiba · 27 September 2013

There are many expert RC-modellers in Japan, aren't they ?
About my first point : Maybe 343 Kokutai was using of widely separated airfields, so some flights needed
drop tanks, others not ? And, as said before, it's an animation, not original fotage.

About the second point, maybe someone read about it in the memoirs of a WW II fighter pilot, or inother
publications ? As said before, it's qute OT here, but on the way to the target, fighters were flying in close
formation, so jettisoning the drop tanks hould have been done in a defined way, as colliding with on of them
could have ruined a fighter pilots day ! Don't have many sources about fighter tactics, but maybe someonelse.

blackkite · 27 September 2013

"FAMOUS AIRPLANES OF THE WORLD No124 KYOFU, SHIDEN, SHIDENKAI, ISBN978-4-89319-158-8" has two drawings for NIK5-J.
One is factory blue print. So another one is error. It's unbelievable mistake.

blackkite · 27 September 2013

So this drawing is good.

Stargazer · 27 September 2013

A quick cleanup on the N1K5-J plan:

blackkite · 27 September 2013

Thansk Star! N1K5-J's nose looks like Jinpu(J6K1).
And N1K4-J picture.

JFC Fuller · 20 April 2015

So, just to confirm, the N1K5-J was to have had the Ha-43/MK9 engine with a supercharger?

airman · 20 April 2015

How many aircraft were to be built in production plan ?
For example we know that for Mitsubishi Raiden the intention was to produce 500 aircraft for month .

blackkite · 20 April 2015

JFC Fuller said:
So, just to confirm, the N1K5-J was to have had the Ha-43/MK9 engine with a supercharger?

Sorry I made a mistake in my table. N1K5-J had a Mitsubishi Ha-43-11 engine with turbo charger+signle stage two speed mechanical supercharger same as Reppu.
But Reppu's Ha-43-11 engine did not have a forced cooling fan and a turbocharger.
HA 43 engine of Reppu was the emergency engine which removed a turbocharger from an engine for Mitsubishi Ki-83 high speed fighter of the IJA.
So Ki-83's Ha-43-11(Ha-211 ru) engine had a forced cooling fan?

This engine is stored in Paul E. Garber Preservation, Restoration, and Storage Facility U.S.A.

MK9A engine(Ha-43-11 series) : Turbo charger+single stage two speed mechanical supercharger
MK9B engine(Ha-43-21 series) : Vulcan coupling drive first stage and mechanical drive (two speed?) second stage supercharger
MK9C engine(Ha-43-51 series) : Single stage three speed mechanical supercharger
MK9D engine(Ha-43-41 and 42 series) : For Senden and Shinden pusher fighter type, Vulcan coupling drive first stage and mechanical drive (two speed?) second stage supercharger

Perhaps Ha-43-31 series engine existed. Turbo charger+second stage mechanical drive three speed supercharger?

blackkite · 21 April 2015

Hi! HA-43-42(MK9D) engine for Shinden. It had a Vulcan coupling drive first stage supercharger, mechanical drive second stage supercharger and aft end forced cooling fan.

blackkite · 21 April 2015

Hi! Turbo charged HA-43-34? engine stored in Paul E. Garber Preservation, Restoration, and Storage Facility U.S.A.

blackkite · 21 April 2015

There were more following HA-43 engine variants.
HA-43-41 : For Mitsubishi Senden fighter, Vulcan coupling drive first stage supercharger, mechanical drive second stage supercharger and aft end forced cooling fan
HA-43-12
HA-43-22
HA-43-31

Following drawing shows the engine layout of Senden fighter. But we can not see ram air intake to Vulcan coupling drive first stage supercharger. Litttle strange drawing. I think that this drawing lack Vulcan coupling drive first stage supercharger.
I imagine that basically HA-43-41 engine for Senden fighter and HA-43-42 engine for Shinden fighter had the same shape without oil cooler and forced cooling fan.

滑油冷却器 : oil cooler, 冷却ファン : cooling fan

blackkite · 21 April 2015

Following opinion exist.
http://japaneseaircraftofwwii.blogspot.jp/2015/03/mitsubishi-a7m3-j-variant-of-reppu.html
The proposed A7M3 variant of the Reppu and the land based sub-variant (the A7M3-J) were to be powered by the Mitsubishi MK9C eighteen cylinder radial engine that was rated at 2,250 hp on take-off, 1,800 hp at 5,000 metres and 1,660hp at 8,700 metres. Armament comprised of six wing-mounted Type 99 Model 2 20mm cannons (for the A7M3) and four wing-mounted 30mm Model 5 cannons and two rear-fuselage mounted obliquely firing 30mm Model 5 cannons. The dimensions of the A7M3 and the A7M3-J were supposed to be identical to their predecessors however the weights and also the wing loading of these models were different to those of their predecessors. For the A7M3 model, the weight when empty stood at 3,392 kg and when loaded it was 5,040 kg, while the wing loading was 163.3 kg per square metre. For the A7M3-J model, the weight when empty stood at 3,955 kg and when loaded it was 5,732 kg, while the wing loading was 183.1 kg per square metre.

The Combined Fleet website says carrier fighter but, oddly, other sources say that the A7M3 (Model 23) was based on the airframe of the A7M2 (Model 22) but without the wing-folding mechanism.
Either way, the A7M3 was powered by a Mitsubishi MK9C (Ha-43-31 with three-stage two-speed compressor - 2,250 hp T/O, 2,000 hp at 1,800 m, 1,800 hp at 5,000 m, and 1,660 hp at 8,700 m). Armament was increased to six 20 x 101 mm Type 99 Model 2, all wing-mounted.
By contrast, the land-based A7M3-J was to be longer (presumably ahead of the firewall), have greater wing area, and would be powered by a turbocharged engine (Mitsubishi Ha-43-11 Ru). Armament was to be six 30 x 122 mm Type 5 cannons (2 x oblique fuselage-mounted, 4 x wing-mounted).
Other sources say that the A7M3 and A7M3-J were both powered by Mitsubishi MK9Cs, differing only in the armament fitted.

But accoding to Mitsubishi's data, MK9C's super charger was a single stage three speed supercharger.

blackkite · 23 April 2015

Manshu Ki-98 had a MK9A engine.
Also Reppu-kai (A7M3-J) had a MK9A engine.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7230.0/all.html

I imagine that Vulcan coupling drive first stage super charger of MK9B engine((Ha-43-21 series) was located behind the engine.
The early A7M3-J design had a MK9B engine.

MK9A : Ki-83, Ki-98, A7M2(without turbo charger), A7M3-J, N1K5-J SHIDEN-KAI
MK9B : A7M3-J early plan, KAWANISHI J3K1
MK9C : A7M3
MK9D : SENDEN, SHINDEN

blackkite · 23 April 2015

airman said:
How many aircraft were to be built in production plan ?
For example we know that for Mitsubishi Raiden the intention was to produce 500 aircraft for month .

Let me confirm this.

Kawanishi N1K "Shiden" unbuilt variants and derivatives

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