Shorts S.B. 8 Helicopter Design

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ChuckAnderson

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Hi Everyone!

This design (the Shorts S.B.8), seems a little odd to me in one aspect, namely the single main rotor offset to one side, rather than being directly centered.

I've never seen that done with a single main rotor.

Are there any other helicopter designs that have the single main rotor offset?


Chuck
 

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possibly it was thought of a more efficient way to counter torque? Or maybe limitations with the planned powerplant?
 
Just call me Ray said:
possibly it was thought of a more efficient way to counter torque? Or maybe limitations with the planned powerplant?
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I was thinking that too, perhaps by countering the moments of torque. However, looking at the picture it seems that the SB.8 fuselage would just dangle from the rotor (very non-technical description, I know) at an angle, which wouldn't help the tail rotor counter torque in my opinion.

I think the reason for the offset rotor might be to free-up space in the right side of the fuselage, maybe for cargo or fuel. You can see from the overhead that the rotor and tail-boom are off-set to the left. There are also large intakes/vents shown on the left-side of the fuselage. Whether these are enough to handle the requirements of a helicopter engine I don't know.

Starviking
 
starviking said:
Whether these are enough to handle the requirements of a helicopter engine I don't know.
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Depends on the engine. There's no such thing as a "set" helicopter engine, most piston and turbine helios use engines commonly found on their fixed-wing counterparts. This thing doesn't look too big so I imagine it would probably use an O-320/360 or maybe an O-520 class engine, so the vents would probably be adequete.
 
mentions of Short PD.66, PD.67 & PD.68 helicopter proposals ? latter two in conjunction with Hiller ?

Ref. Shorts Aircraft, Putnam Press
 

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What concerns me about the SB.8 is that it was (apparently) pitched at HR.144 and all the other bidders look like parrot cages on skids. The SB.8 looks far too modern (and complex) for that spec. More Robinson R.22 than Heath Robinson. Or were Shorts taking the Mickey as usual?

I think it was pitched at something later, such as AH.246, AH.247 or AH.248.

Chris
 
Matej said:
Additional question - from engineering point of view - what is the advantage of such configuration?
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Perhaps to balance the increasing lift of the advancing blade vs the decreasing lift of the retreating blade in cruising speed, with moderate blade pitch changes?
 
Interesting theory, it did have a rigid(?) rotor.

Chris
 
I see what you're getting at Chris, the noted Short SB.8 does look a tad 'later' in design configuration than the other 'ultralight' contenders to HR.144T (im now wondering if the original drawing was misnoted in the Putnam reference ?)

Has anyone seen drawings for the other Short helicopter proposals, be interesting to see what they were pursuing ?

cheers, Joe
 
That's exactly what I've been thinking. Not the first or the last time the wrong drawing has been/will be used.

Chris
 
TsrJoe said:
mentions of Short PD.66, PD.67 & PD.68 helicopter proposals ? latter two in conjunction with Hiller ?
Ref. Shorts Aircraft, Putnam Press
Click to expand...

Same book gives more details in Appendix E:

P.D.66 Light Rotorcraft
P.D.67 Hiller-Short twin turbine 4 seat Helicopter
P.D.68 Hiller 12-E development
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TsrJoe said:
the noted Short SB.8 does look a tad 'later' in design configuration than the other 'ultralight' contenders to HR.144T
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According to the Royal Aeronautical Society News (May 2014), the National Aerospace Library owns at least two documents (dated February and December 1953) for Short's tender to H.R.144T, and it wasn't the S.B.8. It is described as the Short-Harland SPH.100, with two different studies as SPH.100/1 and SPH.100/4 (and probably at least two more in between), SPH.100/4 being submitted to HR.144T.

Various Possible approaches to the Design of a Two Seater Helicopter. S.P.H.100/1. F Robertson.
Short Brothers and Harland Limited, Belfast. February 1953. 64pp. Illustrated.
Compares various contemporary hub driven/tip driven helicopters and the potential for ramjet and pulse jet propulsion, incorporating design analyses of the Hiller
Hornet, American Helicopter XH-26, McDonnell 79A, Sud Ouest SO-1120 Ariel III, Bell 47, Saro Skeeter and the Hafner AR III gyroplane.
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Design for an Ultra Light Weight Helicopter Tendered to Specification H.R.144T (R.D.T.2 Ref: 7/Aircraft/11791). SPH.100/4.
Short Brothers and Harland Limited, Belfast. December 1953. 55pp. Illustrated.
Includes a number of sectional diagrams of the helicopter’s rotor hub, gearbox, main rotor blade, tail rotor and engine installation.
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Nice Info my dear Skyblazer,

and here is a large drawings to SB.8.
 

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Thanks Skyblazer,

That sounds more like what I'm looking for, a tip-driven parrot cage.

Chris
 
Re: Short Helicopter Design

http://studylib.net/doc/18769576/society-news---royal-aeronautical-society ... Proposal for a programme of work aimed at securing for Shorts a position in the world market for Rotary-Winged Aircraft, particularly in the private sector. PD.66/1. Short Brothers and Harland Limited, Belfast. September 1967. 47pp. Illustrated.Includes as appendices descriptions of the F H Robertson ‘Rotacoupe’, the McCandless single-seat gyroplane, Short PD66.00.11 4-5 seat autogiro design, Short PD59 Rotobus (a 29-seat autogiro design with fuselage accommodation identical to the PD80) and a report on autogiros compiled by Arthur D Little for Shorts.
 
Re: Short Helicopter Design

TsrJoe said:
http://studylib.net/doc/18769576/society-news---royal-aeronautical-society ... Proposal for a programme of work aimed at securing for Shorts a position in the world market for Rotary-Winged Aircraft, particularly in the private sector. PD.66/1. Short Brothers and Harland Limited, Belfast. September 1967. 47pp. Illustrated.Includes as appendices descriptions of the F H Robertson ‘Rotacoupe’, the McCandless single-seat gyroplane, Short PD66.00.11 4-5 seat autogiro design, Short PD59 Rotobus (a 29-seat autogiro design with fuselage accommodation identical to the PD80) and a report on autogiros compiled by Arthur D Little for Shorts.
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Yeah, saw this one too but didn't think it was appropriate for this thread about the S.B.8.
This and another reference I found both clearly point to the P.D.66 as being an autogyro project.
 
I thought it made sense so as not to add another page for a very similar subject topic, possibly a thread rename required as it looks like the SB.8 designator may well be a misnomer ? how about Short helicopter and rotorcraft projects ? B) anyway, it would be interesting to see any drawings on the proposals to give them context
 
Flight, 13 Feb 1964

As part of the agreement with Hiller for proposed licence production of the 12E for the British Army ( which instead chose the Sioux ), Shorts received rights to market the 12E and the FH-1100 in "Europe, Africa and most of Asia but excluding Australasia".
 
Shorts continued to be interested in rigid rotors. Flight, 4 July 1968:

Shorts are watching Lockheed's work on rigid rotors and other aspects of advanced helicopter technology very closely, with a view to being involved with Lockheed in any programme of development for commercial transport applications. Talks have been held between the two companies about advanced helicopter collaboration.
 

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