Caproni-Vizzola F.7

Thought I'd better move this to a seperate thread as it's not really Fiat G.52 anymore.

In Thompson (Italian civil and military aircraft, 1930-1945) we are told that the F.7 project was based on the F.6, but with a slimmer fuselage and powered by an Alfa Romeo Monsonie engine (licence built DB601)

Anyone have any more details?

Thanks


Andrew

Er, no. The intended engine for the F-7 was the FIAT RA.1050 R.C.58, i.e. the license built DB-605. The wing was the same as the F-6M, but with a longer fuselage. It was intended as the Caproni-Vizzola "5" series fighter (sincerely, there were already too many...). The ones with the DB-601 and Tifone (licensed built 601 by Alfa Romeo), were the F-5bis (AKA F-4, wing made of wood, one prototype built) and the F-6M (an F-4 entirely in dural, M stands for Metallico). BTW, the I.F. Zeta was air cooled, like its parent Gamma. And yes, one version of the Z was equipped with a Wright two-speed turbocharger (I.F. Z R.C.25/60), mechanically driven (no exhaust gas, that is). Problem is that the engine became too hot.... it was always air-cooled.
The late Fabrizi-designed fighter question is rather murky. For example, has been published a sectioned view of an alleged "F-7" with a Delta, an all-wood light fighter. It makes sense, since the Regia (part of it) had an affair with wooden light-fighters and there was a running order for hundreds of SAI-403s.
All these question I hope to resolve in a few week. I definitively know were to look... 8)

BTW, the I.F. Zeta was air cooled, like its parent Delta. And yes, one version of the Z was equipped with a Wright two-speed turbocharger (I.F. Z R.C.25/60), mechanically driven (no exhaust gas, that is).

Click to expand...

You mean a supercharger then? The RC.25 / 60 designation means that power is re-established at 2500m and 6000m doesn't it? That indicates a two-stage supercharger not two-speed. A two-speed gearbox will just smooth out the power-altitude graph.

I'd like very much to ask you whether you have any pictures of the Piaggio P.XI RC.100 used in a few high-altitude aircraft. Sometimes this engine has the RC.100/2v suffix used. What does this mean?

Sorry for all the questions.

Probably I HAVE, where? ???

2v = 2 velocità (two speed)

Ummm, source I used for the Zeta second version states "due velocità".... But I'll cross check.

Confirmed: it was a centrifugal compressor with two speed of operation. The source is official, a late 1942 Regia document describing experimental engines.

Hi! Caproni-Vizzola F.6Z.
Engine was Isotta Fraschini Zeta.
The Isotta Fraschini Zeta was a 24-cylinder aircraft engine X 90°, air cooled, manufactured by the Italian company Isotta-Fraschini in the first half of the forties of the twentieth century.
http://alternathistory.livejournal.com/860342.html
http://forum.tantopergioco.it/discussion/5071/caproni-vizzola-f-5-alphaflight-1-72-w-i-p
Auto translation
The plane received the new designation f. 6MZ. Construction commenced on two instances of aircraft, but only the first (MM. 498) was completed. First flight f. 6MZ was held in August 1943 onwards. Tests revealed the shortcomings of the new powerplant became the main aircraft engine overheating in flight. All of these shortcomings could be eliminated completely, but lapping the engine existed until the capitulation of Italy.

Specification
F. 4　　　 　　F. 5　　　　 　F. 6　　　 　F.6Z
Wingspan, m　　　　　　 11.35　 　11.30　　　 11.30　　　　 11.82
Length, m　　　　　　 　　9.15　　　 　7.90　　　 　9.15　　 　　　9.25
Height, m　　　　　　　 　3.02　　 　　3.00　　　 　3.01　　　　　 3.02
Wing area m2　　　　　 　18.81　　　 17.60　　 　18.81　　　　 18.50
Mass, kg
an empty plane　　　 　　2462　　 　 1818　　 　2265　　 　　3355
normal takeoff　　　　　 　3000　　　 　2238　　　 2885　　　　 4100
Engine type　　　　　　　DB 601A　 　Fiat A 74 r. c. 3　 　Fiat RA. 58.1050 Tifone　 Isotta-Fraschini RC. 25/60 Zeta
　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　 　　(Daimler Benz DB605A)
Power, HP　　　　　　　 　1175　　 870　　　 1475　　 　1250
Maximum speed, km/h　　551　　 496　　 568　　 640
Cruising speed, km/h　　　446　　 　414　　 477　 　544
Range, km　　　　　　　　 　　950　　　 1000　 　950　 　1370
Service ceiling, m　　　　10300　　 9500　 　10500　 　8000
Crew, pers　　　　　　　　 　 1　　 　1　　 　 1　　 　1
Armament
F. 4 : 2 × 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT MACHINE GUNS
F. 5 : 2 × 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT MACHINE GUNS
F. 6 : 4 × 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT MACHINE GUNS
F.6Z : 2 × 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT MACHINE GUNS, 2 × 7.7 mm Breda-SAFAT MACHINE GUN

Blackkite-san, I wonder what a FKFS X-16 (intended for the He S-50z) is doing among italian stuff... Mind your seventh image. It`s plain german technology!

Oh thanks a lot. Sorry for big mistake.
What is this engine?

the photo depicts a two-stroke petrol engine developed by professor Wunibald Kamm from the FKFS in Stuttgart, intended to power a ducted fan powerplant, the Heinkel HeS 50z, dating from 1941/42.

Thanks a lot.

Hi, this is my vision of Fabrizi F.6Z, hope you enjoy it.

http://www.aereimilitari.org/forum/topic/16351-caproni-vizzola-f7/ -

(My approximate image of what if caproni vizzola f.7 was realized also like project )

Caproni Vizzola F.7 was a projected development of Caproni Vizzola F.6 with Db 603 engine .

airman said:

(My approximate image of what if caproni vizzola f.7 was realized also like project )

Caproni Vizzola F.7 was a projected development of Caproni Vizzola F.6 with Db 603 engine .

Click to expand...

Looks disproportional, with too heavy nose. Is the engine part really to scale? If so, it's necessary to make the tail longer.

redstar72 said:

airman said:

(My approximate image of what if caproni vizzola f.7 was realized also like project )

Caproni Vizzola F.7 was a projected development of Caproni Vizzola F.6 with Db 603 engine .

Click to expand...

Looks disproportional, with too heavy nose. Is the engine part really to scale? If so, it's necessary to make the tail longer.

Click to expand...

I know , it's was only an approximate example

No F.7 yet but Vespa models is releasing 1/48 kits of the following this year:

GTX said:

No F.7 yet but Vespa models is releasing 1/48 kits of the following this year:

Click to expand...

I love Carlos Alonso's boxtop artwork!

But I'm still confused as to the nature of the Caproni Vizzola F.7 project. The drawing by airman shows an F.6M fitted with a large DB 603 - which was to be licensed by Alfa Romeo as a replacement for the R.A.1000 Monsone (DB 601A). So that would make the F.7 Fabrizi's entry into the Regia Aeronautica's 'Serie 6' category.

In reply #2, Skybolt said that the F.7 was to be powered by a smaller Fiat RA.1050 R.C.58 (DB 605A). He describes the F.7 airframe as having the wings of the F.6M (so, metal construction) mated to a longer fuselage.

Okay, that would make sense - the longer fuselage balancing the engine (the RA.1050 Tifone being a physically longer engine than the F.6M's R.A.1000 Monsone). But what was the overall point of the F.7 project? After all, there was already a range of Tifone-engined fighters in production for the Regia Aeronautica.

Marco later acknowledges that the F.7 "question is rather murky. For example, has been published a sectioned view of an alleged "F-7" with a Delta, an all-wood light fighter." So, if our resident Italian Aircraft SME can't be sure of the nature of the F.7 ...

is the top plane, an first deesignidea then?

Original Caproni plan for the F.7 (from the Mallams auction):

Stargazer said:

Original Caproni plan for the F.7 (from the Mallams auction):

Click to expand...

I mentioned elsewhere that Skybolt had described an IF Delta-powered F.7. The thing is, that was to be a wooden-airframed light fighter. Your drawings are clearly titled F.7M (Metallico). It seems that Fabrizio Fabrizi envisioned near-endless development possibilities for his family of fighters. Happy days!