Interstate Assault Drones (TDR-1, XBDR)

A

Abingdon

ACCESS: Confidential
Senior Member
Joined
9 July 2007
Messages
65
Reaction score
153
Has anyone ever found scale plans of the Interstate TDR-1 assault drone?

This was a precursor of both guided missiles and contemporary UCAVs that was used in combat on a limited scale in 1944. It could be remotely steered into a target from its TBM Avenger control ship or it could be armed with bombs or other ordnance which could be delivered and the drone returned to base.
 
Searay said:
This was a precursor of both guided missiles and contemporary UCAVs that was used in combat on a limited scale in 1944. It could be remotely steered into a target from its TBM Avenger control ship or it could be armed with bombs or other ordnance which could be delivered and the drone returned to base.
Click to expand...

Return-to-base was only an option for unarmed training flights (on these, a pilot sat in a simple cockpit of the TDR-1, to take over the drone should the remote control fail). On combat missions, the landing was dropped after take-off (to reduce weight and drag, presumably), and the TDR-1 was expended.
 
Thanks. I've seen that photo (going in either direction!) My library is fairly good on missiles, less so on aircraft, so I was hoping there might be a scale plan out there in some obscure book I hadn't seen yet. This is for an upcoming book on the history of UAVs, and I'm currently preparing the references for the illustrator. I have a good selection of photos of the TDR-1 and TDN-1. Here's a few that might be of interest. The head-on shot is a TDR-1 during the 1943 stateside training. The other two show training with the TDN-1 and an interesting shot of one of the armament options on the TDN-1.

(I'm new to this forum so I hope the photos post properly!)
 
Here's another attempt to post the pictures mentioned above
 

Attachments

  • TDR1A.jpg
    TDR1A.jpg
    110.7 KB · Views: 722
  • TDN1A.jpg
    TDN1A.jpg
    293.8 KB · Views: 772
  • TDN1B.jpg
    TDN1B.jpg
    252.1 KB · Views: 680
My library doesn't really extend to before the 1950s but there are others who might have something.
 
http://stagone.org/

Nice article has broken images - so here's a fixed copy as PDF.
 

Attachments

  • Command Break.pdf
    624.5 KB · Views: 222
A superb article can be found at Le Fana de l'Aviation Nº286 September 1993 by Alain Pelletier Pg 27 to 30 with lots of pics that can complement that from Searay. BTW Thanks a lot for sharing it Searay!
 
More info in:

*The Aeroplane Spotter - January 25,1947
and in
*Aviation History - January 2004
 
I can probably locate the Fana article this weekend, but unless it has a 3 view I'm guessing it won't be useful.
 
Many thanks to all concerned for the many leads on articles. I have a US Navy Proceedings article also. I had the StagOne material, but the .pdf was a big help as the internet version is missing most of its images. I would swear there was an article in Tail-hook many moons ago, but if so, I haven't been able to find it.

I actually have enough detail on the program for the purposes of the book. It is an overview of UAV history from 1917 to 2007 for the Osprey New Vanguard series, and there's only so much stuff you can cram into a 13,000 word book. I was interested in the drawing as I am working on the references for the color plates. If there are no available drawings, I'll do up a set based on photos.

Anybody have decent drawings of the QH-50 DASH drone from the 1960s?
 
UAV history from 1917 to 2007 for the Osprey New Vanguard serie
Click to expand...
Wow, nice addition to my library :)


Anybody have decent drawings of the QH-50 DASH drone from the 1960s?
Click to expand...

Pg 67 World Encyclopedia of civil and military helicopters by Giorgio Apostolo with drawings from Amedeo Gigli. 1984. Mondadore Editore SpA Milano
 
http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/specs/intersta/tdr-1.htm

I am now 88 yrs. old, and I was the Chief Liaison Engineer for the TDR-1 production plant in DeKalb, Illinois, from 1942 to 1944. I worked for Interstate in Los Angeles on this project prior to volunteering to move to DeKalb. From the time of the release of all Interstate employees on this project in 1944, until 2003, I had been unable to find any information on this aircraft. My son and I traveled in Feb. 2004 to Pensacola, Fl, to see what I think is the only intact TDR-1 in existence, at the National Museum of Naval Aviation. I would be interested in communicating with other people who have an interest in the history of this aircraft. I would also be interested in obtaining a copy of the manufacturing/use/repair paperback manual such as is in the library of the museum.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the manual would contain a drawing?
 
I just came across this 12/2/08 website, are you still looking for TDR info. Have you seen the model on Hyperscale? www.hyperscale.com/features/2001/tdrdronetc_1.htm
 
I guess not needed for this book, as Mr Zaloga's book has come out already.

http://www.amazon.com/Unmanned-Aerial-Vehicles-1917-2007-Vanguard/dp/1846032431
 
I guess not needed for this book, as Mr Zaloga's book has come out already.
Click to expand...

I'd to love to see a much more expanded book on this subject by Mr Zaloga. I enjoy very much his books but that's only a little introduction on such highly interesting field. I need much more ::)
 
[quote author=Searay ]
Anybody have decent drawings of the QH-50 DASH drone from the 1960s?
[/quote]

would this be of any help

http://www.gyrodynehelicopters.com/qh-50d1.htm

Xavier
 
sorry , forgot the original subject.

check this article (with drawing) at http://www.vectorsite.net/twcruz_1.html#m4

and if you have time to spare check the whole site. ;)

regards

Xavier
 
Searay said:
Here's another attempt to post the pictures mentioned above
Click to expand...

Here's another photo, it appeared on the cover of Air Trails back in 1945.


Hope this helps,

-- John
 

Attachments

  • [Naval Aircraft Factory] (1943) TDR-3 (01).jpg
    [Naval Aircraft Factory] (1943) TDR-3 (01).jpg
    602.8 KB · Views: 603
Searay said:
Has anyone ever found scale plans of the Interstate TDR-1 assault drone?
Click to expand...

From the archives at the Washington Navy Yard:
 

Attachments

  • TDR top view.jpg
    TDR top view.jpg
    379.1 KB · Views: 438
  • TDR side view.jpg
    TDR side view.jpg
    256.4 KB · Views: 419
  • TDR front view low res.jpg
    TDR front view low res.jpg
    548.2 KB · Views: 509
Completely missed the 3-view still yet, so, although rather belated, many thanks Tommy !
One question remains. The 3-view shows the TDR-1 in "attack configuration" without
the cockpit. But at some photos show the manned version with cockpit armed with a
torpedo or with bombs. So, was this configuration just used for flight testing and evaluation
or was the removal of the cockpit not really necessary for pilotless flights ? (No, I don't think,
that there ever were thoughts about using the pilot just as guidance system, as a US Kamikaze .. ::) )
 
Jemiba said:
Completely missed the 3-view still yet, so, although rather belated, many thanks Tommy !
One question remains. The 3-view shows the TDR-1 in "attack configuration" without
the cockpit. But at some photos show the manned version with cockpit armed with a
torpedo or with bombs. So, was this configuration just used for flight testing and evaluation
or was the removal of the cockpit not really necessary for pilotless flights ? (No, I don't think,
that there ever were thoughts about using the pilot just as guidance system, as a US Kamikaze .. ::) )
Click to expand...

Just guessing, I'd say they left the safety pilot seat and controls in and the canopy on until the aircraft was being prepared for its last flight, since I don't think the remote control was adequate for a landing. Even if it was, it would still be appropriate for a safety pilot to be aboard for a maintenance test or ferry flight, if not training flights.
 
Seems to me like the TDR was the first recorded OPV (Optionally Piloted Vehicle) in US aviation history!
 
Hi,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_XBDR
 

Attachments

  • 300px-Interstate_XBDR-1.jpg
    300px-Interstate_XBDR-1.jpg
    5.3 KB · Views: 1,072
The XBDR-1 was a design for a tailless jet-powered assault drone, proposed in 1944. Scale models were built but no full scale aircraft.
Span was 51'8" and it was powered by 2 jets.
 
Reisert, Thomas. "Tests of a 1/17-Scale Model of the XBDR-1 Airplane in the NACA Gust Tunnel", NACA Report WR-L-539, 1944
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19930092619_1993092619.pdf
 
These might be of interest. The source is "XBDR-1 Mock Up," Interstate Aircraft & Engineering Corp. Rpt No. W 272. The document is not dated, but the photos are dated "11-19-43." Sorry for the poor quality -- it's a photocopy from an original located at NARA, file 72-AC-1B.
 

Attachments

  • img099.jpg
    img099.jpg
    374.2 KB · Views: 577
  • img098.jpg
    img098.jpg
    190.5 KB · Views: 591
  • img095.jpg
    img095.jpg
    114.4 KB · Views: 602
  • img096.jpg
    img096.jpg
    167.6 KB · Views: 629
Wonderfull information, Cliomam!
It was my missing link between the XBRD-1 program reference and Interstate's patent n. 144.111 dated March 12,1946.
Thank you so much for sharing.
 

Attachments

  • Patent !$$!!!.jpg
    Patent !$$!!!.jpg
    56.8 KB · Views: 258
Here are a few more pics from Interstate's XBDR Mock Up report. The cutout in the fin is for the guidance reception antenna. The airbrake arrangement is also interesting.
 

Attachments

  • img100.jpg
    img100.jpg
    350.1 KB · Views: 245
  • img101.jpg
    img101.jpg
    618.4 KB · Views: 236
On pg. 14 of the COMMAND BREAK pdf that Overscan posted, it shows artwork of a flying wing, jet-powered "bomber drone" proposed by Interstate.

All I got is from the STAG 1 website: http://stagone.org/?attachment_id=120

"Two views of what might have been. On the left the TDR-3, which sported radial engines and an improved Block-3 television set-up. The Navy lost all interest in propeller driven aircraft after the war, and it was shelved. On the right, a drawing of a jet-powered bomber drone – an Me 163 clone? – designed by Interstate in 1943 and put into the round file by the Navy."

Anyone else hear more about this one? It looks like a nice one.
 

Attachments

  • ns18.jpg
    ns18.jpg
    12.6 KB · Views: 247
Well looks like Google answered my question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_XBDR
 

Attachments

  • Interstate_XBDR-1_piloted_side_view.png
    Interstate_XBDR-1_piloted_side_view.png
    327.2 KB · Views: 158
But wait! There's more! Win! B)

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,10838.msg102255.html#msg102255
 
From the same article:
Interstate_XBDR-1_flying.png

Interstate Aircraft & Engineering Corp. - "XBDR-1 Mock Up," Interstate Aircraft & Engineering Corp. Rpt No. W 272. National Archives File 72-AC-1B.

Artist's concept of the Interstate XBDR-1 jet-powered assault drone in flight.
Click to expand...


EDIT: Clioman posted the same image back in 2010!
 

Attachments

  • Interstate_XBDR-1_flying.png
    Interstate_XBDR-1_flying.png
    1.2 MB · Views: 236
"Secret Projects: If it's rare, it's already there!" ;D ;D ;D
 
That's the true joy of this forum. Years on here and I'm still discovering new projects!
 
Hi!
Interstate XBDR. ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_XBDR
"The Interstate XBDR was a design for an assault drone - an early television-guided missile - powered by two jet engines, that was designed by the Interstate Aircraft and Engineering Corporation during the latter stages of the Second World War for use by the United States Navy. Wind tunnel tests of a scale model were conducted, however no full-scale examples of the aircraft were built before the project was cancelled."

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app1/bdr.html

NACA Report. In this report NACA called XBDR-1 as airplane.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19930092619.pdf
Gust-tunnel test model had a windshield!! :eek:

So we have following three kind of images for XBDR and 1/17 XBDR gust tunnel test model.
(1) XBDR with slit shape air intake.
(2) XBDR with slit shape air intake and wind shield.
(3) XBDR 1/17 scale gust tunnel test model with round air intake and wind shield.
 

Attachments

  • Interstate_XBDR-1_flying.png
    Interstate_XBDR-1_flying.png
    1.2 MB · Views: 190
  • Interstate_XBDR-1_piloted_side_view.png
    Interstate_XBDR-1_piloted_side_view.png
    327.2 KB · Views: 200
  • Gust tunnel test model.jpg
    Gust tunnel test model.jpg
    77.8 KB · Views: 240

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom