Caproni aircraft designations

Cheers Maveric - those have been added. Thanks!

...

Ca. 62 Bomber project 192?
Ca. 63 Bomber project 192?
Ca. 68 Recon boat project 192?
Ca. 69 Recon boat project 192?

to be continued...

...
Ca.72 Bomber 1926
Ca.75 Bomber project 192?
Ca.76 Bomber project 192?
Ca.77 Bomber project 192?
Ca.78 Bomber project 192?

...

Excellent, thanks Maveric! Added.

BTW, just to confirm ... Ca. 17, Ca. 21, and Ca. 23 were all built aircraft not projects, right?

Yes, Apophenia, you are right!

...
Ca.84 Amphibian boat project 192?
Ca.85 Amphibian boat project 192?
Ca.86 Amphibian boat project 192?
Ca.87 Bomber 1929

Many thanks again Maveric (and thanks for the built/project status confirmation as well).

Now, only the Ca.93 remains unsolved. What a difference from just a few days ago. Cheers!

Your wish, my order. Please, the Ca.93! (a Project, year uknown)

Maveric said:

...
Ca.84 Amphibian boat project 192?
Ca.85 Amphibian boat project 192?
Ca.86 Amphibian boat project 192?
Ca.87 Bomber 1929

Click to expand...

My dear Maveric,

you forget the Ca.81,and Ca.87 was transatlantic aircraft as in
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/flyboat/ca87.html
may be you meant that;

Ca.81 Amphibian boat project 192?
Ca.84 Amphibian boat project 192?
Ca.85 Amphibian boat project 192?
Ca.86 Bomber 1929

Am I right or not?.

Thanks Hesham and Maveric. Ca.87 entry adjusted and Ca.93 added.

Hi,

sorry...
the Ca.81 was a recce aircraft project 192?.

Origin the Ca.87 was a bomber, later need for a transatlantic flight.

Servus

Thanks Maveric. Ca.81 details added.

Ca.104 acrobatic aircraft 193?
Ca.107 fighter project 193?
Ca.115 bomber project 193?
Ca.116 sport aircraft project 193?

Cheers Maveric! Ca.104, Ca.107, Ca.115, and Ca.116 projects added.

Ca.117 experimental aircraft project 193?
Ca.118 bomber project 193?
Ca.119 recce project 193?

Ca.126 sport project 193?
Ca.136 bomber (project ?)
Ca.146 bomber 1938

Cheer Maveric! Ca.117, Ca.118, Ca.119, Ca.126, Ca.136, and Ca.146 added.

Hi,
Few days ago I visited the "Museo dell'Aeronautica Caproni" (Caproni's Aeronautical Museum) in Trento. I took some pictures of many wooden models of projects that were completely without identification: I put some of the photos I took in the hope that we can at least give a name to the models!
I hope you like!

A windtunnel model, that may represent a Caproni type, too, is shown in the "Deutschen Technikmuseum Berlin"
(German technical museum Berlin)

Hi,


Ca.173 was improved version of Ca.165,single seat fighter with more powerful
engine,and developed the wing shape.

Now that is a lovely design (Ca.150) - Is there any more information about it?
(I always loved this particular engine configuration - and wondered if you could shut down one of the engines to increase range and make up for the added weight...)

Obviously we need a separate Caproni Vizzola designation list.

I'm postulating that an almost uninterrupted numerical sequence can be made of Caproni Vizzola designations (until the gap between the C-22J and the 'zwilling' A41). However, even if true, there is one anomoly -- the Caproni Vizzola MF.

[Update: Hesham's C.V.7 shows that a sequences cannot be made with Caproni Vizzola designations.]

The MF is listed by j2mcl Planeurs (http://www.j2mcl-planeurs.net/) as a single-seat training glider with a 14 metre span. Only 1 MF was built in 1938. The MF is attributed to Caproni Vizzola & Gruppo Tommaso dal Molin. Design was by Carlo Ferrarin and Livio Sonzio (who also designed the C.V. 1° and C.V. 2° sailplanes).

There is also a cryptic mention in Golden Wings of a "Vizzola glider" (I-ABNY at Varese 30.04.40). So, was this MF glider registered at I-ANBY (or was that reg for the C.V. 1° or one of the four unaccounted-for C.V. 2°s)? Alternatively, was MF an alternative designation for either the C.V. 1° or C.V. 2°?

Then there are questions of Caproni Vizzola designation style. Why was Caproni Vizzola the sole Caproni company not required to use 3-digit designations? And what did the prefix letters stand for? Here is a guess:

C.V. - Obvious stood simply for Caproni Vizzola
A -- Probably just stood for alianti (glider)
F - Stood for designer, ing. Fabrizio Fabrizi
C - Stood for Caproni (Caproni Vizzola being the sole survivor)

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Caproni Vizzola Alpha-Numerical Designations

C.V.1 - single-seat parasol sailplane w/o canopy, 1 built (c/n 1?), 1937(?)
- C.V.1: Usually referred to simply as the Caproni Vizzola 1°

C.V.2 - single-seat parasol sailplane with canopy, 14 m span, 6 built, 1938-
- C.V.1: Usually referred to simply as the Caproni Vizzola 2°, (c/n 2-6)
-- Caproni Vizzola 2°: c/n 2 (I-ABKX), c/n 3 (I-RENI)

C.V.3 - (Project) single-seat biplane aerobatic trainer; spatted main u/c
- C.V.3 : 1 x Isotta Fraschini Beta 6-cyl inline (?); span 10.71 m
- C.V.3: In competition with Ba.92, Ca.214, Ca.602, CANSA FC.11, & IMAM Ro.71
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/caproni-vizzola-cv-series.44671/#post-722525

C.V.4 - (Project) 1940 single-seat monoplane fighter aircraft
- C.V.4 : Low-winged monoplane with retractable main u/c
- C.V.4 : 1 x 1,175 hp Daimler Benz DB 601A IV-12; span (??)
-- C.V.4 design is almost certainly related to Fabrizi's F.4 fighter
-- Previously reported with 350 hp IF Gamma as fighter-trainer*
-- * If at all accurate; parallel to later F.5 Gamma development

C.V.5 - (Project) biplane aerobatic trainer; enlarged C.V.3/C.V.7
- C.V.5 : Few details but approximately 130% the size of C.V.7
- C.V.5 : 1 x (??) hp (??) inline engine;* span 10.00 m
-- * Being larger than the C.V.7, possibly an IF Gamma IV-12?
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/caproni-vizzola-cv-series.44671/#post-722586

C.V.6 - (Project) 1940 2-seat, twin-engined monoplane fighter; twin tails
- C.V.6 : Close-coupled back-to-back crew; leading edge radiator intakes
- C.V.6 : 2 x 1,175 hp Daimler Benz DB 601A IV-12s;* span (??) m
-- * Presumably Alfa Romeo R.A.1000 R.C.44 intended for prod'n type

C.V.7 - (Project) 1940 2-seat biplane trainer; single- or 2-seat vers. studied
- C.V.7 : 1 x 300 hp Isotta Fraschini Beta R.C.10-I; span 7.70 m
--https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/caproni-vizzola-cv-series.44671/#post-722529

________________________________________________________________________________

F.4-F.7 Series - Single-seat, single-engine fighters, design begun 1937-38

F.4 - Mixed-construction (wood wing, steel-tube fuselage), inline engine
- F.4: Init., 959 hp Isotta-Fraschini Asso 121 R.C.40, construction halted
- F.4: As completed, 1,175 hp DB 601, 1 prototype built, flown July 1940

F.5 - Parallel design to F.4 with radial engine, prototype flew Feb 1939
- F.5: 870 hp Fiat A.74 R.C. 38, prototype + pre-production a/c, 13 built
- F.5bis: 1.175 hp Alfa Romeo R.A.1000 R.C.44-la Monsonie, 1 x F.5 conv.
- F.5 Gamma: [Project] 1-/2-seat advanced trainer, 540 hp IF Gamma R.C.35 IS

F.6 - Revised Caproni Vizzola F.4 fighter design with fully-metal structure
- F.6M: 1,175 hp Daimler-Benz DB 605A, 1 prototype built, flown Sept 1941
-- F.6M: 'M' for Metallico (to indicate the shift to all-metal construction)
- F.6Z: 1,250 hp Isotta-Fraschini R.C.25/60 Zeta, 1 prototype, flown Sept 1941
-- F.6Z: 'Z' for Zeta, X-24 engine expected to produce 1,500 hp, aka F.6MZ

F.7 - (Project) Revised F.6M, 1 x 1,475 hp Fiat RA.1050 R.C.58 Tifone
- F.7: F.6 wing, longer fuselage and new engine
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2472.msg20609.html#msg20609

Calif series sailplanes (design by Carlo Ferrarin & Livio Sonzio, 1969- )

A10 - single-seat sailplane, 1969, 1 built

A11 - (??)

A12 - single-seat sailplane, 1970 (?), 2 built

A13 - (??)

A14 - single-seat sailplane, 1 built

A15 - single-seat sailplane, 1 built (I-VIZA, Museo Gianni Caproni)

A16 - A19 (??)

A20 - single-seat sailplane, 1972
- A20S: 2-seat derivative of the A20 sailplane

A21: two-seat deriv. of 'monoposto' A14, metal/fiberglass, 1970
- A21: two-seat derivative of A14 sailplane, 20.36 m span
- A21S: refined production version of A21 2-seat sailplane, 1970, x 53
-- - TG-12A: single A21S Calif used by USAF Test Pilot School
- A21J: jet A21, 220 lb, low-mounted SERMEL TR18, 5 built, 1972
-- A21J No 1: research a/c mod. by Lockheed/MSU, high-mounted jet
- A21SJ: jet-powered A21S, revised higher position Mictroturbo TRS18
-- last produced s/n 257
- A21SJA: (Unofficial desig.) Rebuild from A21S/'SJ parts, TRS18-046-1
-- A21SJA: 1 x conversion (VH-GCM) in June 2000

C22J - Ventura, 2-seat trainer, 2 x Microturbo TRS18-1, 2 built, 1980
- C22J: 2 x prototypes (I-CAVT c/n 001 and I-GIAC c/n 002)
- C22R: (Project) reconnaissance variant of C22J

A41: (Project) Gemello, twin-fuselage (A21 Calif) four-seater

Undesignated Caproni Vizzola Projects

MCT (Monoposto Caccia Trigona) - (Project) 194? single-engined heavy fighter
-- Alfa Romeo 101, German DB 605 or Reggiane L.105 engine behind pilot
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3291.msg26796.html#msg26796

Sagittario - (Project) March 1943 single-engined fighter-bomber aircraft
- Sagittario: Also high-altitude fighter w/ exhaust gas turbocompressor (DB 605D)
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17595.msg167623.html#msg167623

Hi,


Ca.175 was a single seat high performance fighter project
Ca.605 was single seat biplane project
Ca.606 was two seat biplane project


http://www.aeronautica.difesa.it/storiaTradizione/ufficioStorico/Documents/documenti/Direzione%20Costruzioni%20Aeronautiche.pdf

Thanks Hesham. I've added a few other details from that pdf too. Great find!

Hi,


I heard about Caproni Vizzola C.V.7,but with no details,so may be they meant F.7
fighter,is that right ?.

Hesham: Yes, almost certainly meant as a reference to the F.7. There doesn't seem to be any number duplication in the Caproni Vizzola designation sequence.

Thank you my dear Apophenia,


I was just confuse,when I saw this designation.

Concerning the Kaproni Bulgaria.
I found on a Yugoslavian site that the KB-9 Bekas (projects) would be a replacement of the KB-6 (KB-309) Papagal.
It could be armament but also for civil use.
They could not give me further information than the folow:
Specifications
Crew: 2
Passengers: 4
Length: 44.3 ft (13.5 m)
Wingspan: 59 ft (18 m)
Height: 13 ft (4 m)
Wing area: 484.4 ft² (45 m²)
Empty weight: 5,512 lb (2,500 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 8,598 lb (3,900 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × Argus As 410 inverted V-12, 450hp each

Performance
Maximum speed: 210 mph (338 kph)
Range: 800 mi (1,287 km)
Service ceiling: 20,000 ft (6,096 m)

Armament
- 1 × .30cal MG
- 150kg bombs

Who knows/has more about this project?
Jan

Great find Jan,


but what is your source,you know this series we could know nothing about its projects.

Hi,


we must add Ca.167 and Ca.412 to the list;
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8743.msg242466.html#msg242466

hesham said:

I heard about Caproni Vizzola C.V.7,but with no details,so may be they meant F.7
fighter,is that right ?.

Click to expand...

The Caproni-Vizzola C.V.7 is true designation,it was two seat biplane,intended to compete,
CANSA C.6,Breda Ba.205,SAIMAN-208,Caproni Ca.605 & Ca.606.


Dimensione Cielo - Scuola-Collegamento vol. 11

Thanks Hesham, these have been added.

Jan: I had previously come across the 'KB-9 Bekas' as described on the Wesworld what-if website. Is there strong evidence that this was a real project?

Excellent my dear Apophenia.

Hi all

here the design of Ca.179.

I don't know if it was actually built.
There is a letter from Aviation Office of 1942, May 20th, telling that there is an interest in an order for a prototype of Ca.179 (4 engines), but they have to wait for the approval of the project.

Ale

please note that the desing is for a 3 engines!

Great find Alemilb.

Hi,

when I search in my files,I found a strange Caproni design,it was Ca.702,does anyone
hear about it before ?.

hesham said:

... when I search in my files,I found a strange Caproni design,it was Ca.702,does anyone
hear about it before ?.

Click to expand...

The Ca.702 seems to have been a product of the Fábrica Nacional de Aviones Caproni Peruana.

Libeccio, a forum member at Stormo!, asked about the Ca.702. His unlisted source said that "work had been started [on] a batch of Ca.702 'advanced trainers', however, war in Europe began and all further work was suspended, the airframes being scrapped."

http://stormomagazine.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=83&sid=f23baf75d173f2be9d31c776bdfd3eaa

So Ca.702 assembly had began at FNA Caproni Peruana (co-located at CAP's Base Aérea Las Palmas, Lima) but never completed. That raises the question: What did the Cuerpo Aeronáutico del Perú use as advanced trainers instead? (The CAP Ca.114 fighters didn't become trainers until after WW2.)

Many thanks my dear Apophenia,

and we can add it to the list.

I suppose we could add it ... but to what sequence? I can find no mention of a Caproni Ca.700 or Ca.701. And Libeccio's query is the only online reference to the Ca.702 that I could find (other than as the matricola of a WWI Ca.3 bomber) ???