13-Shi Navy Experimental High-speed Recce Plane (Aichi C4A, AM-20)

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hesham

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has anyone a drawing to Aichi AM-20 recce seaplane ?.
 
Have any drawings or illustrations of the mock-up of the Aichi C4A1 ever been discovered?

Boogey had some interesting information from a couple of years ago. http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6772.0/highlight,c4a1.html
 
I can't find any pictures or drawings of Aichi C4A1.
In 1938, the IJN planned to develop high speed land base reconnaissance plane correspond to Ki-15, ordered Aichi to construct experimental type. Aichi began to develop slender monoplane AM-20(C4A1) with fixed undercarriage based on the experience of AM-17 11-shi carrier base bomber design, the chief designer was Norio Ozaki. Mock up was completed in March 1939.
BTW the IJN selected modified Ki-15 as 98 type land base reconnaissance plane, AM-20 was cancelled.
Source: My No.2 bible
Please watch following site which described 98 type land base reconnaissance plane.

http://www.geocities.co.jp/Bookend-Ohgai/3853/jnrs/jnrsC222h.htm
 

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There was supposedly constructed a mock up of the Aichi C4A1 recon aircraft. Has anyone ever found any pictures or drawings? How about a conjectural drawing of this aircraft?
 
Hardrada55 said:
There was supposedly constructed a mock up of the Aichi C4A1 recon aircraft. Has anyone ever found any pictures or drawings? How about a conjectural drawing of this aircraft?
Click to expand...

The C4A was probably the Aichi AM-20 project. I have never seen any picture of it. Blackkite, do you think you have one somewhere in your great archives?
 
Does anyone think there may be a connection between the Aichi E12A, the 12-shi; am-18 project for a two place floatplane with a Mitsubishi Zuisei engine and the 13-shi, am-20 project for the C4A two place carrier borne reconnaissance aircraft with the Zuisei engine. e.g., would the C4A possibly be a carrier borne version of the E12A?





 
I just realized that I have images of nearly every Aichi type but none of the AM-20 (and the AM-15 too), so I won't be of much help on this one I'm afraid...

However, here is the info I have: the AM-20 was submitted in 1938 to the 13-Shi Experimental High-speed Reconnaissance Plane specification. A wooden mock-up was completed, but no real aircraft was built as it was cancelled in favor of the Mitsubishi C5M Karigane ("Babs"), a navalized version of the Army's Ki-15.

It would be really interesting to find a picture of the mock-up and/or a plan...
 
Meanwhile, and just to advance the discussion, allow me to offer this ENTIRELY HYPOTHETICAL landplane version of the AM-18.

Please keep in mind that we have NO GUARANTEE at this stage that the AM-20 (C4A) looked anywhere near this aircraft.
 

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Out of curiousity, why are we assuming the E12A1 as the based for the AM-20? Had not the more successful AM-19/E13A1 had already flown by the time Aichi submitted its candidate for 13-Shi?
 
From Japanese internet site​

13-shi high-speed land reconnaissance plane (C4A1)​
Although the IJN did not have a high-speed land reconnaissance plane conventionally. While the hinterland offensive in the China continent became frequent, keenly realized the necessity for a long-distance high-speed reconnaissance plane for strategic reconnaissance or a success-in-battle check and used imported Seversky land fighter plane as a land reconnaissance plane as the China incident progressed, the high-speed land reconnaissance plane was ordered to Aichi in Showa 13(1938).​
Aichi’s chief designer Ozaki started the design of modern high speed land reconnaissance plane using the modern high-speed aircraft technology learned from Heinkel70 high-speed land plane which Aichi imported by technical cooperation with German Heinkel in Showa 10.​
Although the mock-up of the high-speed two-place airplane with a low mounted mono wing and fixed undercarriage was completed and examination carried out as company name AM-20 in March, Showa 14(1939).​
But the IJA employed modified Ki-15 as a 98 type land reconnaissance plane (C5M1～2) in Showa 13(1938), the development of 13 shi high-speed land reconnaissance plane became meaningless, construction of AM-20 was aborted.​
Now, the details of the data and others are not discovered.​
 
blackkite, you've absolutely, positively made my day! Been looking for this bird for ages! ;D

Apophenia said:
Out of curiousity, why are we assuming the E12A1 as the based for the AM-20? Had not the more successful AM-19/E13A1 had already flown by the time Aichi submitted its candidate for 13-Shi?
Click to expand...

A very sound remark I must say. Let's see what we can do with it! ;)
 
In my previous speculative 3-view of the AM-20, I was following Boogey's statement that the AM-20/C4A1 had a "retractable undercarriage":
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6772.msg57630.html#msg57630

As blackkite has established that the AM-20 has a fixed undercarriage, I offer another speculative view. In this case, I have used the Aichi AM-19/E13A1 as my base (rather than the unsuccessful E12A1). To the floatless AM-19 has been added the undercarriage of the Aichi D3A as well as the Val's cowling for the Zuisei engine.
 

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Speculative of course... but certainly looks good to me... ;)
 
Sorry off topic. But Ki-15's fixed landing gear was rather long compared with propeller diameter.
If landing gear was too short, propeller hit the ground.
 

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I have reworked an existing E13A1 color profile, notably by adding the wheel unit and canopy of a D3A2. I could have left the one used on the Jake but thought the one on the second version of the Val looked better... Didn't change anything to the engine cowling. Perhaps I should have? What was your logic, Apophenia?
 

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Very nice Stéphane! The Val canopy is certainly sleeker.

Stargazer2006 said:
... Didn't change anything to the engine cowling. Perhaps I should have? What was your logic, Apophenia?
Click to expand...

My cowling change was motivated by the move from the E13A1's Kinsei to the AM-20's Zuisei engine.

blackkite: Good point on undercarriage leg heights. I based mine directly on the D3A's spatted gear. Of course, carrier types don't have to content with uneven airfields. Maybe that's why the Val's undercarriage legs could be comparatively shorter than the Ki.15's?
 
Hi! Aichi D3A. Sorry for off topic. But it's important 3 side view for our discussion.
It seems for me that propller tip had enough clearance between the ground.
 

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With all respect, blackkite, I can see two anomalies in your attachment. First it says D3A1, when the cockpit shows it clearly to be a D3A2. Also the wheel fairing looks upright when in fact, as you can see in Apophenia's and my attachments, their had a slanted look (they only looked upright when the aircraft was sitting on its tail).
 

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