VAB competition Panhard's entry

I have a very poor photo of Panhards entry to the VAB competition. Panhard M4 VAB. Anyone have a better photo and information on this losing competitor, also Panhard at about the same time came up with the M8 and 8x8 armoured vehicle.

Re: VAB competition pahard's entry

JAZZ said:

I have a very poor photo of Panhards entry to the VAB competition. Panhard M4 VAB. Anyone have a better photo and information on this losing competitor, also Panhard at about the same time came up with the M8 and 8x8 armoured vehicle.

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Just resurrecting this thread, I've been searching for more info about the Panhard M4 since hearing about it on the South African Prototypes thread. It was evaluated in South Africa was part of the initial IFV process between Sept 25 and Oct 18 1972 that lead to the Ratel IFV. The evaluation went under the codename "TARTAR".


There is nothing out there on google, so I'll pop the photo and description from the South African thread here.

Panhard M4

This vehicle was imported from France, had a hydropneumatic suspension and was amphibious. During a crossing of the Vaal River as one of its tests, it sank and had to be recovered. For the evaluation purposes, it went under the code name of "Klonkie".

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There is also an interesting 6x6 Panhard prototype in that evaluation called the M6, which failed to be even tested due to the failure of the hydropneumatic suspension system. There is also nothing out there on Google on this vehicle that I can find so far.

This is what I have on the M4 and M6. I'll throw in the M8 as well:

Very interesting Costa...thanks.

Interestingly, the attachment you have posted states that:

In 1973 Panhard and Saviem rolled out the first M4 (4x4) prototype designed as an armoured multipurpose vehicle showing a pointed bow design, wheel boxes at the side, and a verticle rear.

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Yet, the M4 was part of the evaluation in South Africa the year before, in 1972.

The M6 (6x6) has the name Boerboel painted on the side. A Boerboel is a large South African mastiff breed, so perhaps the info that it was developed for SA has creedence, as I've not heard of this vehicle since.


Interestingly, both these vehicles are described as having suffered failures during the trials. As mentioned, the M4 managed to sink in a river crossing, whilst the M6 suffered hydraulic leaks and the failure of it's hydropneumatic suspension. The attachment in the SA prototype thread mentions that the M6 wasn't tested due to the failure, and sent back to France.
I wonder what became of it?

Below is the indistinct pic of the M6 (a model of?) from the SA prototype thread pertaining to the Ratel programme.

I have a series of three booklets written by Stefan Marx on the development of the VAB. In the first of these, called: "Unclassified No. 5", the VAB prototypes are discussed as are the Panhard contenders. There are several photographs as well as technical descriptions of the Panhard 4x4, 6x6 and 8x8 vehicles to be found in this book. The "Boerboel" photograph I posted earlier in the South African vehicles thread, also comes from this book and is credited to Christopher F Foss. The books can be ordered from www.platforms-mil.de.

some pics - from book Vehicule de l’Avant Blinde VAB (Mili Doc №1) by Le Musee des Blindes (1993), some from other sources

most pics from Ebay

also from Ebay

M2

btw, apparently M4 still exists - standing next to VAB in Saumur's "Reserve Collection"

From Jane's Weapon Systems 1976 (data is same for all three unless split out into M4/M6/M8):

• Weight: 10.9 / 11.8 / 13 tonnes
• Length 5.305 / 5.855 / 6.7m
• Height: 2.53m (low road), 2.67m (high road), 2.79m (cross country)
• width: 2.5 m
• road speed / range: 90kph / 1000 km
• max grade 60%
• trench: 1.1m / 1.9m / 2.2m
• amphibious

All three versions had a variety of engine and weapons options:

• M4: caterpillar 1150 diesel 200 HP, Baudouin DF6S 185 HP, wide variety of turrets up to 90mm gun
• M6: caterpillar 1150 diesel 200 HP, caterpillar 1160 diesel 225 HP, Baudouin DF6S 185 HP, wide variety of turrets up to 90mm gun
• M8: caterpillar 1160 diesel 225 HP, wide variety of turrets up to same 105mm turret on the AMX-10RC

From the late 1960s to the early 1970s, like its competitors Panhard also hoped to attract police and gendarmerie forces in addition to armed forces. After the May 1968 uprising in Paris, the need for a dedicated riot vehicle arose.
In reaction, Panhard developed a range of specialized vehicles called “IS” (for “Internal Security”).

Panhard's entry into the VBRG ("Véhicule Blindé à Roue de la Gendarmerie") competition was the M3 upgraded to the VLA/IS standard. (Pic 1 – during trials in 1970)
The Gendarmerie Nationale required 4 versions of the future armored vehicle: "base" (with 56mm grenade launcher, 7.62mm AA-52 machine gun and tear gas diffusion system), "lame" (capable of overcoming obstacles with a bulldozer blade), “treuil” (capable of towing other vehicles) and “PC” (command vehicle). Panhard lost both the VAB and VBRG competitions to Saviem and Berliet respectively.

This version of the M3 was available for export under the name "M3 Police". (Pic 2 – "basic" version)
Algeria purchased 55 M3s, an unspecified quantity of which was still in service with the Algerian Gendarmerie last decade.
These vehicles have been modernized by the addition of various elements from the Berliet VXB-170 such as the panoramic turret (Pic 3) and the front windshield (Pic 4).

Later, Panhard offered the VCR IS. (Pic 5) Although more spacious and with improved mobility, it failed to find any buyer. The prototype was stored underground for many years in the former SHAPE headquarters near Paris. (Pic 6) It could be at the Musée des Blindés in Saumur but I have no proof of that.