Re: Kaman K-16B VSTOL seaplane

AeroFranz

AeroFranz

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Hi, I'm looking for information on an unusual VSTOL (a seaplne at that!), the Kaman K-16B - any goodies that are not immediately obtainable by the usual searches. The best i could find so far comes from http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/kaman_k-16.php, including the pic below.
I checked on the forum, and this was not discussed. It's a curious bird, and though a testbed was built, it was never flown. Do you know anything more specific?
 

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Hi AeroFranz,

The KA-16B still exists in the New England Air Museum, but apperently the condition is not too good and it does not received much attention.
The aircraft was the only Kaman non-helicopter type that was built and it used a the fuselage, cockpit section and tail surfaces of a Grumman JRF-5 Goose amphibian which were mated to new tilting design wings. The aircraft was built for a US Navy contract and had two 1,024hp General Electric T58-GE-2A turbines. It was completed late-1959 but never flew (as you already mentioned). However, it seems that some so called tethered tests were done. The USN stopped the project in 1962.
Expected performance included max. speed 240 mph, cruise 200 mph, climbrate 6,000ft/minute, ceiling 16,000ft and range 203 miles. Wingspan was 34ft, length 38ft.4in and height 19ft.3in.
Note: at least one source claims that engines were Lycoming T53-L-2 (unlikely). Another possibility can be that it was designated KA-16 with the Lycoming engines (project only) and KA-16B with the G.E. T58s. Hopefully someone can shed some light on this.
Trust info is of some use.
Besst Regards, Walter
 
Not much, but here's some more photos and other info. Yuykss, even an ebay listing for an old article.

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?aircraft_genericsearch=Kaman%20K-16&distinct_entry=true

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/60-4351.html

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-KAMAN-K-16B-story%2Fphotos.....1%2F48.rare!_W0QQitemZ350114698333QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20081024?IMSfp=TL081024109003r18391

http://www.seawings.co.uk/kamanK-16gal.htm

http://vsv.tudelft.nl/index.php?option=com_vfm&Itemid=85&do=download&file=3rd+year+1st+period%7CAE3-359+Aerospace+systems+and+control+theory%7CAE3-359+070405+%5BE%5D.pdf
 
I have a bunch of photos of it that I took about 13 months ago, and some more that I took maybe five years ago. It appears to be in reasonably good shape, at least on the outside. The earlier photos include a few looking through the windows into the interior; the more recent photos don't include any interior views for the simple reason that the windows have been curtained.

Some photos from that trip here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2596.0/highlight,new%20england.html
 
Thanks everyone for the info.
Too bad the airframe has been left out in the open, for it's such a peculiar vehicle (not to mention the only one), it deserves to be preserved.
 
What was the purpose of VTOL for a flying boat?

Seems to me that the ocean will still be enough of a runway, even after ennemy attacks cratered it.
The only benefit is launch/recovery from small ships faster than with a crane, but that does not seem enough to warrant this development.
 
AFAIK, the reason for using this type was just, that it was available and
could be fitted with the tiltable wing relatively easily. If you look at the result,
you'll see, that there were no means of stabilizing it on the water, no floats
or sponsons, so it probably wasn't intended to land on and take-off from the sea.
 
Jemiba said:
AFAIK, the reason for using this type was just, that it was available and
could be fitted with the tiltable wing relatively easily. If you look at the result,
you'll see, that there were no means of stabilizing it on the water, no floats
or sponsons, so it probably wasn't intended to land on and take-off from the sea.
Click to expand...
Probably true, but STOL is very important for useful seaplane operations. A landing without damage is unlikely in most open ocean conditions. Even if the aircraft is still afloat and functional after landing in a rough sea, a successful takeoff is problematical. That's why the Japanese Shinmaywa seaplane is an STOL airplane. After World War II, the U.S. Coast Guard tried to minimize if not dispense with their helicopter operations in favor of seaplanes. Its leadership either came to their senses or retired.
 

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Jemiba said:
If you look at the result, you'll see, that there were no means of stabilizing it on the water, no floats
or sponsons, so it probably wasn't intended to land on and take-off from the sea.
Click to expand...

I think the lack of sponsons was more their lack of use in ground trials than anything else. Had the trials progressed, they would have been fit as shown in the drawing on the site mentioned in the first post. it is interesting to note that given the prop diameter, the K-16 could only takeoff and land with the wing vertical or partially tilted, which probably required the lateral floats to be hinged.

Tailspin Turtle said:
After World War II, the U.S. Coast Guard tried to minimize if not dispense with their helicopter operations in favor of seaplanes. Its leadership either came to their senses or retired.
Click to expand...

You're probably right, although I would have kept some around for those situations where speed/range was outside the helos envelope (maybe some Turbo-Albatrosses. I think there is a company that just recently started offering new-builds).
The ShinMeiwa US-1 served Japan well. And of course, whirlybirds, hover capability or not, are not nearly as romantic/glamorous as seaplanes! ;)
 
AeroFranz said:
... (maybe some Turbo-Albatrosses. I think there is a company that just recently started offering new-builds).
Click to expand...

You are perhaps thinking of the new-built Super Goose by Antilles Seaplanes.

http://www.antillesseaplanes.com/

Sponson (rather than hinged wing floats) would be the way to go for a tilt-wing flying boat. However, as Jens suggested, the KA-16B was a technology demonstrator conversion not the prototype for a planned operational aircraft.
 
The K-16B (K for Kaman and 16 presumably being Kaman's model number for the design) was in fact intended to be a concept demonstrator for an open-ocean ASW flying boat. In the mid-1950s, Kaman had been developing his Rotoprop concept with Navy sponsorship of a demonstrator to be designated K-16. This project was married to the JRF hull to create the K-16B. As you can see from the photos taken from Hal Andrews article in the Vertiflite Fall/Winter 2001 Tiltwing Special and the pictures that I took several years ago, it in fact not only did have wingtip-mounted floats, they were articulated with the pivot point approximately coincident with the wing hinge point.

According to Hal, the engines were GE YT58-GE-6s installed 35 degrees nose down. "This attitude kept the engines within nose-up limits with the wing tilted 50 degrees up at reasonable airplane flight attitude." The propeller gearboxes were connected by a cross-shaft for OEI operation.

Also according to Hal, the K-16B was not only ground tie-down tested, it spent some time in the NASA Ames 40x80 ft wind tunnel in late 1962. His recollection was that "the program ended with completion of the tunnel tests due to the lack of funding to cover the correction of discrepancies hat had been identified as required prior to flight." He also mentioned the lack of ejection seats and the declining interest of the Navy in flying boats in the early 1960s.
 

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TT,
Thanks for the pictures and the added details. I didn't know about the cross-shafted engines, but it makes a lot of sense.
 
Dear Boys and Girls, here is a short article in French about the Kaman K-16B V/STOL flying-boat test-bed......

The article comes from the 30th July 1960 issue of Les Ailes......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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One JRF-5 (04353) was converted as the Kaman K-16B tilt wing VTOL aircraft, fitted with a tilting 34', 10.36 m and two General Electric T-58-GE-2A. Only tethered tests were conducted before the US Navy terminated the programme that had lasted from 1954 to 1962. Some references suggest that 2 Lycoming T-53-L-2 engines were fitted but this may relate to an unbuilt K-16 version.
 

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This is a Kaman report on the K-16B program
 

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I am going to resurrect this thread. According to this site: http://cgibin.rcn.com/jeremy.k/cgi-bin/gzNavySearch.pl?target=JRF&series=3
The aircraft used in this conversion was JRF-5 4351 (s/n 1178).

04351 (MSN 1178) WFU Oct 19, 1953. To N1523V Aug 22, 1955. Returned to US Navy Jan 1958 and converted to
Kaman K-16B tilt-wing experimental aircraft in Jun 1958. WFU May 12, 1965. Preserved in New England
Air Museum, Bradley, Connecticut.
 
Orionblamblam said:
I have a bunch of photos of it that I took about 13 months ago, and some more that I took maybe five years ago. It appears to be in reasonably good shape, at least on the outside. The earlier photos include a few looking through the windows into the interior; the more recent photos don't include any interior views for the simple reason that the windows have been curtained.

Some photos from that trip here:
Click to expand...
Researching this old bird, can't get your link to the earlier visit to load. Could I ask you to repost your interior pictures please?
 
TimL said:
Researching this old bird, can't get your link to the earlier visit to load. Could I ask you to repost your interior pictures please?
Click to expand...

Dunno what happened to the original post. But I imagine those photos are probably the ones from here:

https://up-ship.com/blog/?p=2956
 

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