Mitsubishi Ki-67 Variants and Derivatives (Ki-69, 109, 167)

blackkite · 31 May 2012

Let's begin this topic with Ki-67 original design.
Source : All the Experimental Aircraft in Japanese Army. Kantosha, ISBN978-4-87357-233-8 C9476

blackkite · 31 May 2012

Hi!
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/sturm_geschutze/50304287.html

windswords · 31 May 2012

The last pic of Blackkites Ki-67 model shows a Mitsibushi Ki-147 I-Go-1A radio guided bomb underneath the plane. The Ki-67 was used to test this device late in the war. The bomb never achieved production status.

blackkite · 1 June 2012

Thanks windswords!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj6Ilu6UVPM

blackkite · 1 June 2012

There were many Ki-67 variants.
For example,
①Torpedo bomber; 100 aircraft were planned to modify from Ki-67 pure bomber to torpedo
bomber, actually operated in aerial battle of Taiwan-Okinawa.
②Hiryu 1 gata kai; Ordered to made prototype in fall of 1943, Engine HA104 with turbocharger,
2 planes were tested, but turbochargers did not work well until the end of the war as usual.
Armaments; nose 20mm cannon×1, each side 12.7mm gun×1, upper aft 20mm cannon×1,
tail 20mm cannon×1
③Hiryu 2 gata; Engine ha214 RU(2400hp), only planned.
④Special long range bomber type for Marianas B-29 base attack. Range 5000km, Armament only
12.7mm gun×1(tail), bomb 50kg×15
⑤Special long range attack aircraft for Marianas B-29 base attack. Armament; 20mm cannon×1
tail, under the nose 20mm cannon×1, under the fuselage 20mm cannon×4
⑥Mother plane for Mitsubishi Ki-148 I-go missile; 10 planes were completed and tested, but did
not use for real mission.
⑦Ki-69; Gunship for Ki-67 bomber escort. Only planned.

Stargazer · 1 June 2012

And don't forget the Ki-109 versions and the Yasukuni!

Justo Miranda · 1 June 2012

Maveric · 1 June 2012

Please, show us the Ki.69 :

blackkite · 1 June 2012

Stargazer2006 said:
And don't forget the Ki-109 versions and the Yasukuni!

Hi! Thanks for your attention. Yes of course I will continue this topic with my slow pace.
You know Yasukuni! :

It's the IJN's name for Hyryu.

blackkite · 1 June 2012

Maveric said:
Please, show us the Ki.69 :

I will give you some data of Ki-69. Some one please try! ;D
I can't find any drawings of Ki-69. I imagine it's like a hedgehog.

blackkite · 1 June 2012

Justo Miranda said:
from

Thanks Justo as usual.

Stargazer · 1 June 2012

A nice set of profiles including the Yasukuni (Japanese Navy) and Ki-109 variants:

blackkite · 4 June 2012

Thanks Star! It's a comprehensive one.

You can see turbocharger in a Ki-109 3 side view.

Source : ENCYCLOPEDIA OF JAPANESE AIRCRAFT 1900-1945 Vol1 Mitsubishi's aircraft

Stargazer · 4 June 2012

Cool... but still no pics of the projected Ki-69... :'(

blackkite · 4 June 2012

Yes! :-\
Ki-69 specification
Crews : 9 to 12, Engine : HA101 or HA103 or HA104 class,
Span : 22.5m, Length : 18.7m, Height : 5.605m(horizontal)/4.8m(3 point position), Length between landing gears : 6m, Wing area : 65.85square meter (perhaps same as Ki-67)
Armaments :
①Fore : 7.92mm gun×1 (97 shiki)
②Fore under : 7.92mm gun×1 (97 shiki)
③Under : 7.92mm gun×1(TE-3 type)
④Upper after forward : 20mm cannon(HO-1 TYPE) or 7.92mm gun(TE-3 type)×1
⑤Upper after backward : 20mm cannon(HO-1 TYPE) or 7.92mm gun(TE-3 type)×1
⑥Left side : 7.92mm gun×1 (97 shiki)
⑦Right side : 7.92mm gun×1 (97 shiki)
⑧ Tail : 12.7mm gun×1 (HO 103 type)
Source All the Experimental Aircraft in Japanese Army, 2008, Kantosha, By Minoru Akimoto, ISBN978-4-87357-233-8 C9476

離着陸時 : take off and landing period, 戦闘時 : combat period

Pelzig · 4 June 2012

You'd think that after the debacle with the G6M1, Mitsubishi wouldn't have entertained the Ki-69. I cannot see how the Ki-67 turned into a heavy escort fighter would have turned out any better or useful than the G6M1. Even the U.S. failed with the Boeing YB-40. Rather interesting the parallels between the G6M1's history and the YB-40. Such was the poor performance of the YB-40, it pretty much canned the similar Consolidated XB-41 escort fighter program.

blackkite · 5 June 2012

Hi! I am interested in projected shape of Ki-69.

blackkite · 7 June 2012

Hi! Ki-67 torpedo bomber model.
http://homepage2.nifty.com/yamagiwa/reciprocal-1/Ki-67.htm
You can see Taki-1 radar antenna both side of the fuselage.
Taki-1 radar could detect big ship within 100km and small ship within 20km.
Also you can see Taki-1 radar antenna at the wing. It was a Yagi antenna for forward direction ship detection.

blackkite · 8 June 2012

Hi! Mitsubishi I-go kou(イ号甲) and Kawasaki I-go otsu(イ号乙) 3 side view.
Mitsubishi I-go kou
Span : 3.6m, Length : 5.77m, Height : 1.05m, Gross weight : 1400kg, Engine : Tokuro 1 go 3gata
liquid rocket : thrust 240kg, Final speed : 550km/h, Endurance : 75seconds, Head bomb weight : 800kg, Mother aircraft : Ki-67

Kawasaki I-go otsu
Span : 2.6m, Length : 4.09m, Height : 0.9m, Gross weight : 680kg, Engine : Tokuro 1 go 2gata
liquid rocket : thrust 150kg, Final speed : 550km/h, Endurance : 80seconds, Head bomb weight : 300kg, Mother aircraft : Ki-102 otsu

The IJA thought that it's difficult for both missile to reach launching point(10km before target), and after launch, the mother aircraft must fly straight toward the target until collision.
Mother aircrafts were very easy target for U.S. Navy fighters.

blackkite · 8 June 2012

Some data for Ki-69.
Source : The IJA's and the IJN's Bombers and attack aircrafts 1930-1945, Bunrindo, by Shigeru Nohara, 2007, ISBN978-4-89319-155-7

Maveric · 9 June 2012

blackkite said:
Some data for Ki-69.
Source : The IJA's and the IJN's Bombers and attack aircrafts 1930-1945, Bunrindo, by Shigeru Nohara, 2007, ISBN978-4-89319-155-7

Hi blackkite, do you mean Ki.49-I ???

blackkite · 9 June 2012

Maveric said:
blackkite said:

Some data for Ki-69.
Source : The IJA's and the IJN's Bombers and attack aircrafts 1930-1945, Bunrindo, by Shigeru Nohara, 2007, ISBN978-4-89319-155-7

Click to expand...

Hi blackkite, do you mean Ki.49-I ???

Hi Maveric! We are trying to guess Ki-69 gunship aircraft shape.
I mean Ki-49-1 and Ki-48 armament arrangement are good data for Ki-69 armament arrangement.
Sorry for my bad explanation.

Maveric · 9 June 2012

Sorry, slight misunderstanding B)

windswords · 9 June 2012

Thanks for the great illustrations Blackkite! For the crew positions in the Ki-48: Did they have a 4 man crew with the radio operator using the ventral gun position? Also if you have the chance, could you translate the numbered labels on the left side?

blackkite · 9 June 2012

Ok windswords. Give me some time.

blackkite · 14 June 2012

Hi! Mitsubishi G6M1 escort aircraft. This aircraft gives us some data for Ki-69.

http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/29092

blackkite · 15 June 2012

[font=times new roman, serif][font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Sorry for delay.[/font][/font]
①[font=times new roman, serif][font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Bombardier/bog[/font][/font]
②[font=times new roman, serif][font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Pilot[/font][/font]
③[font=times new roman, serif][font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Radio operator/Rear under gunner[/font][/font]
④[font=times new roman, serif][font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Rear upper gunner[/font][/font]
⑤[font=times new roman, serif][font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Rear under gunner position of radio operator[/font][/font]
⑥[font=times new roman, serif][font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Oxygen bombe[/font][/font]
⑦[font=times new roman, serif][font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Regulator[/font][/font]
⑧[font=times new roman, serif]Flow meter[/font]
⑨[font=times new roman, serif]Oxygen mask[/font]
⑩[font=times new roman, serif]Oxygen hose[/font]

windswords · 16 June 2012

No problem Blackkite. I knew you would come through! Thanks again!

blackkite · 16 June 2012

Nose and tail turret dome shape between Ki-67 prototype model and production model were little different. Nose and tail turret dome rotated manually. It's low drag but not practical shape. B-17 mock up had a same nose turret concept.
Type 1 attack bomber G4M1 had a same tail turret shape, but because of poor operability, G4M2 had various tail turret dome shapes.
Source : ①FAMOUS AIRPLANES OF THE WORLD, No.98 ARMY TYPE 4 HEAVY BOMBER "HIRYU" BUNRINDO ISBN978-4-89319-098-7 C9453.
②Mechanism of Military Aircraft "Ginga" "Type1 Attack Bomber" Kojinsha ISBN4-7698-0922-0 C0372

blackkite · 16 June 2012

Hiryu's side turret wind shield after part was removable same as G4M's. Light weight but operability was poor. B-17 mock up had another concept.

Source : ①FAMOUS AIRPLANES OF THE WORLD, No.98 ARMY TYPE 4 HEAVY BOMBER "HIRYU" BUNRINDO ISBN978-4-89319-098-7 C9453.

blackkite · 2 July 2012

Hi! My image for Ki-69. Enjoy.

shaba · 2 July 2012

hello blackkite can you tell me the defirence between the ki 69 and the ki112 some people speculate that the 112 is a wooden version of the 69.

blackkite · 2 July 2012

shaba said:
hello blackkite can you tell me the defirence between the ki 69 and the ki112 some people speculate that the 112 is a wooden version of the 69.

Hi!
Ki-112 was a experimental heavy bomber by Mitsubishi, planned only.
Source : Ki-NUMBER CATALOG, KOKU-FAN Illustrated, 97-2 No.92

Ki-112 was a short range bomber with turbocharged HA214 engines and wooden/partial steel structure.
The fore armament was enhanced from 12.7mm gun to 20mm cannon.
The shoulder 20mm cannon was enhanced from single to double.
Source : All the Experimental Aircraft in Japanese Army, Kantosha, ISBN978-4-87357-233-8 C9476

blackkite · 2 July 2012

Hi! Nakajima Ki-58 heavy escort fighter. Only 3 aircrafts were made and tested.
Sorry off topic.

blackkite · 3 July 2012

Hi!
There was a v-tail Hiryu plan(案) by ”the major Sakamoto(坂本少佐)" to increase control response and decrease vibration due to propeller flow, but the effect was not satisfactory in wind tunnel test.
Hiryu long range attack version with five 20mm cannons was not completed. Perhaps it was planned to use B-29 base attack in Saipan or Iwo-jima.
The special attack version (Ki-167) had a Sakura-dan(thermit bomb, diameter : 2m, bomb weight : 1600kg, exploded in a cup shape structure, concentrated explosion force to the forward direction ).
A few aircrafts were used in Okinawa battle.

blackkite · 4 July 2012

Is this picture a real one or a fake one?

Artie Bob · 4 July 2012

My guess is no, I was close enough to WWII to have US Navy AA training based on Kamikaze attacks and my memory of the films is that none looked like that. I cannot imagine trying to hold a perfect formation position when the best tactic would probably have been to come from different directions and split up the AA Defenses. But that is just SWAG.

Best Regards,

Artie Bob (Air Defense Officer USS Hermitage)

Jemiba · 4 July 2012

It looks, what I would expect a torpedo attack to look like, not a Kamikaze attack,
but probably a little bit to close to the target.

Stargazer · 4 July 2012

Perhaps the Navy's Yasukuni variant?

Nick Sumner · 4 July 2012

blackkite said:
Is this picture a real one or a fake one?

Its a fake, its based on an image of Yorktown under attack from Hiryu's aircraft at Midway.

Mitsubishi Ki-67 Variants and Derivatives (Ki-69, 109, 167)

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