Fugaku : Z-plane, G10 or G12

blackkite · 12 August 2012

Winning game plan from page 72 (abstract)
How to attack enemy fleet consisting of 20 ships.
・Prepare 15 modified Z-planes which have 400×7.7mm machine guns that fire 1000 shots in 1
minutes in each plane(gun ship).
・Prepare 90 bombers which have 20×1 ton bombs in each plane.
・Prepare 20 torpedo bombers which have 20×1 ton torpedos in each planes.
(1) Gun ship
Combat speed : 600km/h, Gun array : 40 row guns(longitudinal direction
250mm pitch, total length 10m)×10 row guns(lateral direction 250mm pitch, total breadth
2.5m ), cover 45m×10km area with 250mm pitch shots by 15 planes per 1 minutes to shoot
fleet crews on the deck and anti-plane armaments.
Next explanation is bomber. Please wait a moment.

alfakilo · 12 August 2012

This idea reminds me of the RAF's tactics prior to 1940.

The concept involved flying a close formation of three or more fighters armed with rifle caliber (.303, similar to 7.7mm). The formation leader maneuvered the three fighters while the two other pilots maintained a close position. The leader aimed at a bomber target and called for the other pilots to open fire at the same time he did. The theory had it that this hail of bullets would easily down a bomber.

Didn't work in practice.

Jemiba · 12 August 2012

alfakilo said:
Didn't work in practice.

And keeping in mind the time this version of the Fugaku would have attacked USN warships, I think,
it would just have been another kind of Kamikaze mission. Such a big aircraft flying that low, without
being able of evasive actions quite probably would have been an easy prey for the proximity fused
AA shells of the USN !

blackkite · 12 August 2012

Hi!
I forget to tell you that Z-plane's estimated maximum speed was 680km/h at altitude 7000m and service ceiling was 12480m(light weight).
Faster than Grumman F4F and F6F.Almost same top speed of Vought F4U.

(2) Bomber
Drop 1ton bomb 50m interval automatically by 25m interval 9 bombers, cover 200m breadth×1000m length area.
One ship must receive 5 to 10 bombs.
So 90 bombers can cover 200m breadth×10km length area.
(3) Torpedo bomber
Give fishing stroke by 20 torpedos for 1 ship.
Awful. ;D

blackkite · 15 August 2012

Hi! Tu-2 gunship.
88 PPSh-41's mounted on a pallet for use in a TU-2 during WW2.
Sorry off topic.
http://sobchak.wordpress.com/2008/09/05/tupolev-tu-2sh-gunship/
And HA-54.

Jemiba · 15 August 2012

Not too far OT, to my opinion, good find. Smaller aircraft, smaller weapons (submachine guns), smaller targets.
Nevertheless, my scepticism about the survivability of the Fugaku in such a mission remains: A large aircraft,
so easily and early spotted by radar, it would have met alerted defences even with its high speed. Having a
look at the records of Kamikaze attacks with much smaller and more agile aircraft, I think, pressing home
such an attack would have been difficult, to say the least.

blackkite · 15 August 2012

Thanks Jemiba and alfakilo for your sharp opinions.
Perhaps you are correct.

blackkite · 18 September 2012

Hi! Fugaku's HA-54 air cooling 36 cylinders 5000hp engine had turbochargers.
The first stage : turbocharger
The second stage : mechanical supercharger
With intercooler.　
Source : Nakajima aero engine history by famous Ryoichi Nakagawa(Homare designer) and Sotaro Mizutani(research, flight test and field engineer), Kanto sha, ISBN978-4-87357-011-2, page 243(by Sotaro Mizutani).

lastdingo · 18 September 2012

The machine gun attack on AAA is extremely impractical because it wouldn't work well at great altitudes.

It's so much easier to simply drop some guided bombs.
This bomber could have carried a guided Tallboy - a single properly fused near miss would have sufficed against any ship target.
The Japanese had enough guided weapon programs to pull this off, including a subsonic IR-guided self-steering bomb which might even have been suitable for night attacks.

blackkite · 24 September 2012

Hi!
I think final(ultimate Chikuhei's plan through Fugaku committee's verious study) Fugaku's turbo charged HA-54 engine air induction system for turbo charger, intercooler and oil cooler had the same shape of Republic Rainbow's one which located at the wing leading edge same as B-17. This shape had very clean air flow pass around the engine especially cooling air outlet part. Clean and uniform air flow around the engine is very important for such a complex 4 lines 36 cylinders engine cooling. R-4360 was a rather simple 4 line 28 cylinders engine.

T-50 · 25 September 2012

blackkite said:
Hi!
I think final(ultimate Chikuhei's plan through Fugaku committee's verious study) Fugaku's turbo charged HA-54 engine air induction system for turbo charger, intercooler and oil cooler had the same shape of Republic Rainbow's one which located at the wing leading edge same as B-17. This shape had very clean air flow pass around the engine especially cooling air outlet part. Clean and uniform air flow around the engine is very important for such a complex 4 lines 36 cylinders engine cooling. R-4360 was a rather simple 4 line 28 cylinders engine.

wow real pics on the Fugaku engine nacelle designs!

blackkite · 25 September 2012

Hi!
Yes it is. But I think it might be a rather early design which had 2 stage mechanical supercharger instead of turbocharger/mechanical supercharger combination because all exhaust nozzles seems to be independent.

I believe that we are getting the image of final Fugaku which have turbocharged HA-54 engines.

blackkite · 28 September 2012

Hi! Fujimi Mokei(Model)'s ultimate Fugaku model. I have another opinion for ultimate Fugaku shape.

http://ameblo.jp/niitakayama/image-11290169515-12053746468.html

blackkite · 28 September 2012

Next. Enjoy.

blackkite · 17 February 2013

Hi! Fujimi mokei(model)'s Fugaku(HA54 engine) 3-side view and my guess for Fugaku(HA44 engine).

blackkite · 24 February 2013

Hi! Another Fugaku picture. ;D
http://www.wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?postid=62231

Jemiba · 24 February 2013

Here the nose/cockpit seems to be more inspired by the B-52, not by the B-29...

Tzoli · 24 February 2013

If Fugaku is G12N1, than which plane is the G10X1 and G11X1? (X can be anything here)

blackkite · 24 February 2013

Jemiba said:
Here the nose/cockpit seems to be more inspired by the B-52, not by the B-29...

Oh! The engine and wing is B-29. ;D I can't find the information that Fugaku was G12N in Japanese sources.

Tzoli · 24 February 2013

blackkite said:
Jemiba said:

Here the nose/cockpit seems to be more inspired by the B-52, not by the B-29...

Click to expand...

Oh! The engine and wing is B-29. ;D I can't find the information that Fugaku was G12N in Japanese sources.

Well it's in the name of the thread so some plane must be considered as G10 and G11 which isn't Fugaku!

blackkite · 19 March 2013

Hi! Another candidate of Fugaku.
Source : Japanese internet site.
http://heirinzi.blogspot.jp/2012/11/blog-post_5768.html
The text says that "there were some plans for Fugaku.
This picture shows enlarged B-29 style most acceptable plan."
I'm not sure who drew this drawing, but it's interesting one.
Flap area was very large. Cabin shape shows pressurized type.
Propeller stream covered flap!

Stargazer · 20 March 2013

For a split second I thought the infamous Myasishchev "M-13" had landed in the Fugaku thread...

blackkite · 20 March 2013

Hi! I'm trying to contact this blog author to ask the source of this drawing.

I did not receive the answer still now.

blackkite · 25 March 2013

Hi!
Youcan see Z bomer and Z transport models in Gunma Prefectural Museum of History in Takasaki city Gunma Prefecture near Tokyo.
http://grekisi.pref.gunma.jp/
http://grekisi.pref.gunma.jp/0205.html
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/nakagawa5939/archive/2013/2/8
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takasaki,_Gunma

blackkite · 8 August 2013

Hi! Another artistic impression of Fugaku. Almost 6 engine B-29. ;D
Source : Imperial Japanese Army & Navy Warplane, My way publication Tokyo,1/9/2013, ISBN978-4-86511-060-9

lark · 9 August 2013

As time goes by ,it seems that nobody really knows how
the Fugaku would look....

blackkite · 9 August 2013

lark said:
As time goes by ,it seems that nobody really knows how
the Fugaku would look....

Hi lark! You are absolutely right. The artist will get the job for Fugaku forever. ;D
But I still have a hope for the discovery of wonderful official drawing of Fugaku.

Jemiba · 10 August 2013

Fugaku seems to have used rather the B-36 as a pattern for the fuselage and nose, instead of the B-29, I think.

lark · 10 August 2013

I'm on your side Blackkite. Perhaps one day...

blackkite · 10 August 2013

Thanks lark and Jens.
We never give up!

T-50 · 12 August 2013

Im with you guys! if they ever find orginal drawnings of the G10 N thats world news!

blackkite · 12 August 2013

Thanks T-50 san! We are also waiting your drawing for Fugaku,too.

blackkite · 12 August 2013

For example, I found this image in Japanese internet site.
Z-plane(Ohta) had twin vertical stabilizer. So it is not a Z-plane(Ohta).
Final Z-Plane had a fillet at the wing root. So it is not a fonal Z-plane.
So it is a Z-plane(Koizumi) or Fugaku HA-44 variant.
But the propeller seems to be contra rotating type, if so it is a Z-plane(Koizumi).

T-50 · 16 August 2013

awsom stuff Blackkite san!

blackkite · 30 October 2013

Hi! Another image of Fugaku. Similar to my impression.
The first one is Fugaju with HA54 engine and contra rotating propeller. Other images are Fugaku with HA44 engine. Enjoy.
source：http://www.amazon.co.jp/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?__mk_ja_JP=%E3%82%AB%E3%82%BF%E3%82%AB%E3%83%8A&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=%E5%B9%BB%E3%81%AE%E8%B6%85%E9%87%8D%E7%88%86%E6%92%83%E6%A9%9F%E5%AF%8C%E5%B6%BD

famvburg · 30 October 2013

Anybody know what the title(s) is/are to these? I've been looking these over and IMHO these Fugakus ARE 6-engined B-29s. Maybe with a few other artistic license minor tweaks, but looking at them, again, only IMHO, everything on a B-29 is in the same location on these. Even the cowlings don't look all that modified, tho they seem different somewhat and the 4 blade props have spinners. Could this be the Japanese Tupolev Tu-4? "Stealing the Superfortress" all over again.

Cool pics anyway, this one I may have to make a model of. Thanks.

blackkite · 30 October 2013

大逆転　幻の重爆撃機富嶽 : "The large inversion, Super heavy bomber Fugaku of a phantom"(A fictitious record of war) by Yoshiaki Hiyama(檜山良昭).

①アメリカ本土奇襲 : U.S. mainland bombing

⑧原爆投下を阻止せよ : Prevent atomic bombing!

⑥インパールに出撃せよ : Sortie at Imphal(B-29 base).

bigvlada · 2 November 2013

There were B-29s in Imphal? I've read about Burma campaign in general and battles in India but I thought only US transport aviation was present (and contributed a lot ferrying supplies for forward units). Were those planes converted bombers?
Were there plans to bombard ports in India? Or Suez? I know that the Germans laid mines in the canal using bombers from Italian bases on Rodos. Perhaps something similar would be possible in Panama canal.

blackkite · 2 November 2013

The purpose of the Imphal strategy (From Japanese site)
(1) Reservation of the communications route of a Japanese army
(2) Occupation of the long-range bomber (B-29) base of the U.S. Forces (second stage?)
etc.
But B-29 base was mainly Kharagpur. Far from Imphal.(Almost 1000km) ???
There are opinions in Japan that,
(1)The IJA made the China battle line expand by Chinese provocation.
(2)The ABCD encirclement exercised by the China battle line expansion forced Japan into the war.
(3)Independence of Asian countries was promoted by the Pacific War.
(4)China has still repeated the provocation to Japan in the outskirts of the Senkaku Islands.

It said roughly, the charge of the IJA was a battle line for China, and the charge of the IJN was a battle line for the United States.
The battle of Guadalcanal was a combined action of the IJN and the IJA.

bigvlada · 9 November 2013

Thank you Blackkite, that was an interesting addition to my knowledge of the subject.

Fugaku : Z-plane, G10 or G12

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