Chinese re-engined IL-10 projects

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Sorry if this is off-topic, but upon scrowlling down through the page posted above, I saw a nice rendition of what seems to be a turboprop Il-10 conversion. Was this actually considered or even built?

Answer:
The Il-10-re-engineing proposal came into being during 1969 when the CMC requested a new engine to replace the Tu-4's ASh-73TK piston engines. As a result the Ivchenko AI-20 was chosen for a few Tu-4 (the KJ-1 AWACS demonstrator and the Tu-4 UAV-carrier). In line with these the proposal was made also to replace the Il-10's Mikulin AM-42 by the same engine.

Deino
 
Yeppp ... (will be included in the book too ::) ), ... following the latest information I got two aircrfat were converted and at least one also flown. Sadly both were destroyed - one after an crash and the other during an engine-fire - and later on that project was canceled esp. after the Q-5 made some progress.

Deino


PS: regarding the photo's title "re-engined real maybe" ... when I first found it I was not sure if simply psed, but it is real.
 

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Thanks Deino! Amazing stuff. I am sure the Czech and Russian authors that penned the latest works on the Il-10 didn't have such info available just a few years ago. Heavy COIN is the only role I can envision for such an obsolete design at such a late date. It reminds me of the Piper PA-48 Enforcer (especially the photo you posted - thank you). Do you have a release date for your book or is it still early to ask for it?
 
Veering away from the original topic, but regarding the turbo Il-10, do we know what engine it uses? I had considered a Whif Turbo Il-10 developed in the '60s for the N Vietnamese AF as a counter to the USN /USAF Skyraiders & darned if this real one looks like what I imagined! especially all the extra hardpoints & assorted weapons surely make me think 'Chinese Skyraider'. Anyway, my question. They put turbo props on just about everything that was piston-powered, Tu-4s, Be-6s, (some smaller a/c?) & even the Mi-4 helo, (Z-6?) which IIRC, looked kinda like an Mi-8, now the Il-10 has come to light. Do we know if they converted any Tu-2s & Li-2s ? IIRC, they used the Tu-2s well into the '60s & Li-2s even later..
 
Deino said:
The Il-10-re-engineing proposal came into being during 1969 when the CMC requested a new engine to replace the Tu-4's ASh-73TK piston engines. As a result the Ivchenko AI-20 was chosen for a few Tu-4 (the KJ-1 AWACS demonstrator and the Tu-4 UAV-carrier). In line with these the proposal was made also to replace the Il-10's Mikulin AM-42 by the same engine.

Deino
Click to expand...


Wow! 2 1/2 times the HP. I wonder if it was de-rated any or it had it all available. It doesn't seem it was exactly underpowered with its 1700+ HP.
 
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famvburg said:
...In line with these the proposal was made also to replace the Il-10's Mikulin AM-42 by the same engine.
Click to expand...

I simply added an engine of the KJ-1 AWACS to the Il-10, but I think, it looks quite large,
especially as compared to the photo, doesn't it ? ???
 

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Assuming you have them to the same scale as I'd expect, it doesn't look too big, as in being out of proportion or distorted. I had suspected an AI-24 engine & for my Whif model I mentioned, that's what I would have used for both size & power. Isn't the AI-24 what they installed on their Be-6s, rather than AI-20? Thanks for making it.


Jemiba said:
famvburg said:
...In line with these the proposal was made also to replace the Il-10's Mikulin AM-42 by the same engine.
Click to expand...

I simply added an engine of the KJ-1 AWACS to the Il-10, but I think, it looks quite large,
especially as compared to the photo, doesn't it ? ???
Click to expand...
 
Jemiba said:
famvburg said:
...In line with these the proposal was made also to replace the Il-10's Mikulin AM-42 by the same engine.
Click to expand...

I simply added an engine of the KJ-1 AWACS to the Il-10, but I think, it looks quite large,
especially as compared to the photo, doesn't it ? ???
Click to expand...

Well it DOES look big in the photo here, doesn't it? Rhe prop even seems bigger in the photo than in your artwork!
 

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I modified the prop and reduced the diameter of it in the 45° position.
So, in the perpendicular position, there's still some ground clearance left,
which wouldn't have been there in the first drawing.But indeed, this plane
needed a smooth runway !
 

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Well, like many highly modified air racers & some tail wheel a/c in general, it could have been SOP with this mod to only do 3 point takeoffs & landings. I would imagine with the amount of torque generated a locking tailwheel would be most helpful during takeoff.



Jemiba said:
I modified the prop and reduced the diameter of it in the 45° position.
So, in the perpendicular position, there's still some ground clearance left,
which wouldn't have been there in the first drawing.But indeed, this plane
needed a smooth runway !
Click to expand...
 
Indeed, but that would render the use of such an aircraft by standard crews
a little bit doubtful. But maybe the accidents just proved that.
 
Standard crews flew P-51s & it was SOP to do 3 point takeoffs in them. A lot of airplanes have very strange, demanding characteristics that the standard crews are trained to deal with because 'that's just the way it works'.


Jemiba said:
Indeed, but that would render the use of such an aircraft by standard crews
a little bit doubtful. But maybe the accidents just proved that.
Click to expand...
 
Another artist's impression of the turboprop Il-10 here: http://iask.sina.com.cn/b/18773500.html
 
"Another"? That's the same one shown in the link in the first post.


CostasTT said:
Another artist's impression of the turboprop Il-10 here: http://iask.sina.com.cn/b/18773500.html
Click to expand...
 
famvburg said:
"Another"? That's the same one shown in the link in the first post.
Click to expand...

You have to scroll down to see the second artist's impression with the aircraft showing its belly side ;) .
 
Duh! I reckon I'll have to do just that. :) Thanks.

boxkite said:
famvburg said:
"Another"? That's the same one shown in the link in the first post.
Click to expand...

You have to scroll down to see the second artist's impression with the aircraft showing its belly side ;) .
Click to expand...
 
Thanks, boxkite! I had made the same mistake, not scrolling the page down...
 
Stargazer2006 said:
I simply added an engine of the KJ-1 AWACS to the Il-10, but I think, it looks quite large,
especially as compared to the photo, doesn't it ? ???
Click to expand...

Well it DOES look big in the photo here, doesn't it? Rhe prop even seems bigger in the photo than in your artwork!


Does anyone know what type of rocket pods those are?

Some does look 'off' about the picture btw.
 
famvburg said:
Wow! 2 1/2 times the HP. I wonder if it was de-rated any or it had it all available. It doesn't seem it was exactly underpowered with its 1700+ HP.
Click to expand...
2 1/2 times the HP ??? ... the info I have is:

Mikulin AM-42: power: 1,770 hp continuous (three-blade propeller AV-5L-24 of 3.6 m diameter).
Ivchenko AI-20: power 2,600 hp continuous (?) ... that would be "only" a factor of 1.47 ! Anyway still not bad ... or are my data wrong ?


Deino
 
IIRC, the AI-20 is rated at over 4000 hp. 2600 is awfully weak for the a/c it powers.



Deino said:
famvburg said:
Wow! 2 1/2 times the HP. I wonder if it was de-rated any or it had it all available. It doesn't seem it was exactly underpowered with its 1700+ HP.
Click to expand...
2 1/2 times the HP ??? ... the info I have is:

Mikulin AM-42: power: 1,770 hp continuous (three-blade propeller AV-5L-24 of 3.6 m diameter).
Ivchenko AI-20: power 2,600 hp continuous (?) ... that would be "only" a factor of 1.47 ! Anyway still not bad ... or are my data wrong ?


Deino
Click to expand...
 
famvburg said:
IIRC, the AI-20 is rated at over 4000 hp. 2600 is awfully weak for the a/c it powers.
Click to expand...

Hmmm ... You are correct ! 3,149 kW (4,250 hp) for take off ! :eek:
 
I hope my message isn't too late. I've been doing a bit of my own research on this aircraft, mainly with Chinese books regarding Chinese aviation.

It would appear that the Il-10 project's engine conversion was done with a HS-8 radial engine (locally produced ASh-82 radial engines), not a turboprop. This was done due to the Sino-Soviet Split's negative effects on the PLAAF due to the lack of new AM-42 engines and other parts.

Contrary to many Western sources, I believe this information more likely for a variety of reasons. The book I've been reading on this is 中国飞机全书: 第2卷 written by a former PLAAF official model maker / artist, a current PLAAF officer and a well respected magazine writer in China who specialises in aviation.
 
Ready, cutaway Ilyushin Il-10 Turboprop, chinese model, original author unknow and modified by Motocar
 

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Motocar said:
Ready, cutaway Ilyushin Il-10 Turboprop, chinese model, original author unknow and modified by Motocar
Click to expand...
Wrong armament. The prototype and most chinese IL-10s featured 2x 23 mm.
 
blockhaj said:
Wrong armament. The prototype and most chinese IL-10s featured 2x 23 mm.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the comment. I'll review it and try to correct it. It's important to note that this was a modification job done in China, and there are few technical details available. I don't even have the name of the Chinese office that performed the IA-20 engine installation work.
 
According to Chinese sources, this IL-10 modification did not use the IA20 turboprop engine but rather a domestically produced version of the Soviet АШ-82 piston engine. China referred to this engine as the HS8, with "HS" being the initials of the Chinese pinyin for "piston." The HS8 was derived from the HS7, which was a copy of the АШ-82В used by Mi-4. The HS8 was designed based on the HS7, incorporating an АШ-82Т reduction gearbox in a combined design.
 
In the 1960s, Sino-Soviet relations had already deteriorated, and the United States was also imposing an embargo on China. The Chinese military was still extensively using the Tu-2, IL-12, IL-14, and C-46 aircraft, all of which faced engine shortages. The development of the HS8 engine was intended to address the need for engine replacements for these four aircraft models.Similarly, IL-10's AM42 was also unavailable, so HS8 was considered as a replacement.
 
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blockhaj said:
View attachment 764727
Click to expand...

Ok, I understand what you're saying, it's just that I didn't pay attention to that detail and I'm starting from a schematic cut that's well-known in many internet publications. I only modified what refers to the engine and left the rest the same. It's a job to recreate the technique included in that modification made by the Chinese.

P.S. You can now spot the differences...!
 

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Motocar said:
Ok, I understand what you're saying, it's just that I didn't pay attention to that detail and I'm starting from a schematic cut that's well-known in many internet publications. I only modified what refers to the engine and left the rest the same. It's a job to recreate the technique included in that modification made by the Chinese.

P.S. You can now spot the differences...!
Click to expand...
1743130010009.png
copy from this, the wing element is similar
 

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