Japanese Navy Experimental Designations

IJN Experimental Research Types:

MXJ1 17-Shi Experimental Primary Training Glider (Nihon Kogata)
MXZ1 17-Shi Experimental Primary Training Glider (Mizuno)

MXY1 Experimental Test Plane
MXY2 Experimental Test Plane
MXY3 Experimental Target Glider
MXY4 Target Plane
MXY5 Experimental Transport Glider
MXY6 Experimental Ente-type Glider
MXY7 Suicide Attacker / Special Attacker Ohka ("Cherry Blossom") "Baka"
MXY7-KAI Experimental Training Attacker KAI Wakazakura ("Young Cherry") "Baka"
MXY8 Experimental Training Glider Akigusa ("Autumn Grass") (Yokoi Ku-13)
MXY9 Experimental Trainer Shūka ("Autumn Fire")
MXY10 Bomber Ground Decoy for Ginga/"Frances"
MXY11 Attack Bomber Ground Decoy for "Betty"

Just realized there was a terrible series of mistakes in the post at the top of this page between MXY7-KAI, MXY8, MXY9 and MXY10 (faulty copy-pasting). I have now cleaned up the mess.

Curious if anyone has images of the MXY10 and MXY11 decoys? Also, were they deployed in any great number? Seems to be a dearth of information on them. Francillon's book says replicas so I'm guessing they were wooden rather than partially destroyed or old airframes turned into the role of decoy? Were they exact replicas or just equated the size and shape in order to fool Allied photo reconnaissance?

A few additions/corrections made to the list just above.

Hi Folks
In expanding and updating Skyblazer’s list shown above (reply #1), I’ve been researching the details of the many foreign aircraft purchased and evaluated by the IJN before the Pacific War.
The Grumman G21(A) Goose is mentioned in many references as having been purchased by the IJN in the late 1930’s and subsequently evaluated as the “LXG Type G Amphibious Transport”. After a lot of digging, I can find no evidence that such purchase ever happened. The Grumman G21 construction numbers are well-documented in Francillon’s “Grumman Aircraft Since 1929” and on Geoff Goodall’s extremely thorough site at:
http://www.goodall.com.au/grumman-amphibians/grummangoose.pdf
No mention of a sale to the IJN appears in either. The only photos extant of a Goose in Pacific War Japanese markings are of a Dutch example captured by the IJA in the Netherlands East Indies in 1942. The Tachikawa triangle-motif tail markings on that machine show that it was evaluated by the IJA.
Has anyone seen evidence that a G21 was in fact purchased and evaluated by the IJN prior to WW2?
Best Regards, Harry

I will search about that Snark.

Thanks!

snark said:

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Please see;

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=833

Hi Hesham

Thanks for your attention. I have seen this particular website ( and many others) in which this assertion concerning an IJN G21 is made. All contain flat statements without evidence or sources. I'm fussing about this because the two sources I referenced above list the entire G21 production by construction number. This one:

http://www.goodall.com.au/grumman-amphibians/grummangoose.pdf

goes on to list the fate of nearly all of these aircraft as well; including, importantly, the fate of ALL examples built before 1940. The alleged IJN order remains unaccounted for.

All of the other aircraft on Skyblazer's list can be supported by c/n, contemporary records, etc. On this one, silence...

I'd be thrilled if we could find otherwise.

Best, Harry

Update of Skyblazer's list of IJN evaluation types (reply#1)

• (None) “Boeing Carrier Fighter” = Boeing Model 69B (c/n 1034 or 1035) with 425hp P&W R-1340-8 Wasp (export F2B-1)
• AXB Type B Carrier Fighter = Boeing Model 100 (c/n 1145; NX874H) with 450hp P&W R-1340-B Wasp (export F4B-1 with P-12D features added)
• AXD Type D Carrier Fighter = Dewoitine D.510J (c/n 1J or 2J) with 860hp Hispano-Suiza 12Ycrs
• AXG Type G Carrier Fighter = Canadian Car & Foundry GE-23 Goblin (c/n 102) with 890hp Wright R-1820-F53 Cyclone (license-built Grumman FF-1 development)
• AXH Type H Carrier Fighter = Hawker Nimrod 1 with 477hp Rolls-Royce Kestrel IIMS
• AXHe Type He Interceptor Fighter = Heinkel He 100D-0 (c/n 3007; D-ITLR) with 1160hp DB-601M
• AXV “Vought Corsair” Fighter = Vought O2U-1 with 450hp P&W R-1340-88 Wasp
• AXV (2nd) Type V Interceptor Fighter = Vought V-143 (c/n 1228; NR56V) final rebuild with 825hp P&W R-1535-SB4G Twin-Wasp Junior
• A7He1 Type He Air-defense Fighter = Heinkel He 112B-0 with 630hp Junkers Jumo 210C (twelve in service - all used for evaluation and training)
• A8V1 Type S Two-seat Fighter = Seversky 2PA-B3 with 1,000hp Wright R-1820-G2 Cyclone (twenty briefly in service)
• BXN1 “Northrop 2E Attack Plane” = Northrop Gamma 5A (c/n 187; NX14997) with 775hp Wright R-1820F-52 Cyclone and trousered landing gear.
• BXN2 “Northrop 2F Attack Plane” = Northrop Gamma 5D (c/n 291; NX16091) with 600hp P&W R-1340-S3H-1 Wasp and retractable landing gear.
• CXP “Diesel Engine Experiment” = Potez 25x with 500hp Clerget 14F-01 radial diesel engine
• DXD Type D Bomber = Last-produced Northrop BT-1 (c/n 346; USN BuNo. 0643 – damaged and then sold as “Douglas DB-19” (NX18995) following post-accident rebuild by Douglas)
• DXHe Type He Bomber = Heinkel He 118V4 (c/n 1296; D-OMOL) with 1070hp DB-601A
• HXC Type C Flying Boat = Consolidated Model 22 Ranger P2Y-1J (NX21966) with 2 x 575hp Wright R-1820-1 Cyclone
• HXD Type D Flying Boat = Douglas DF-151 (likely c/n 1501 and c/n 1502)
• HXP Type P Flying Boat = Potez 452 with 350hp Hispano-Suiza 9Qd
• KXA1 Type A Intermediate Trainer = North American NA-16-4R (NA-37; c/n NA-37-539) with 400hp P&W R-985 Wasp Junior and fixed landing gear
• KXA2 Type A Intermediate Trainer = North American NA-16-4RW (NA-47; c/n 47-696) with 330hp Wright R-975E3 Whirlwind and retractable landing gear
• KXBu Type Bu Primary Trainer = Bücker Bü 131B Jungmann with 105hp Hirth HM 504A-2
• KXC Type C Trainer = Caudron C.601 Aiglon Senior with 145hp Renault 4Pei
• KXHe Type He Trainer = Heinkel He 72B Kadett with 160hp Siemens-Halske SH-14A
• KXJ Type J Trainer = Junkers A.50ce (c/n 3552; D-3) with 99hp A-S Genet Major
• KXL Type L Trainer = Lockheed Model 10A Electra (c/n 1017) with 2 x 450hp P&W R-985 Wasp Junior SB
• LXC Type C Amphibious Transport = Curtiss-Wright CA-1 (c/n 101; NX13298) flying boat
• LXD Type D Transport = Douglas DC-4(E) (c/n 1601; NX18100) with 4 x 1450hp P&W R-2180-S1A1-G Twin Hornet
• LXF Type F Amphibious Transport = Fairchild Model A-942B (c/n 9404; NX16359 and c/n 9406; NX19130) flying boat with 875hp Wright R-1820-F52 Cyclone
• LXG "Gasuden Passenger Plane" = Gasuden KR-2 Chidori-go development of the de Havilland DH.83 Fox Moth (twelve built – several taken into IJN service)
• LXHe Type He Transport = Heinkel He 70
• LXJ Type J Transport = Junkers Ju 160D-0 (c/n 4248; D-UZUL) with 730hp BMW-132E2
• LXJ (2nd) Type J Transport = Junkers Ju 86Z2 with 2 x 845hp BMW 132Dc (the first [M-211] of 14 in Manchukoan service)
• LXK Type K Transport = Kinner C-7P Envoy (c/n 194; NX14930) with 340hp Kinner R-1044-2
• LXM "Airspeed Envoy Transport Plane" = Airspeed AS.6A Envoy I (likely c/n 41 – one of six imported by Mitsubishi for NKYKK) with 2 x 240hp A-S Lynx IVC
• (None?) "A20A Boston" Bomber = Douglas DB-7B Boston III (c/n 3836; RAF# AL904) captured DEI 1942 (IJN marked [Ko]-DA-1)

In 1940 or 41, two He-119 light bomber prototypes (possibly V7 and V8) were imported for evaluation by the IJN and subsequently flown at Yokosuka. Due to the destruction of documents in both Germany and Japan, the experimental designation of these aircraft and the results of the test program are not known.

Nice work Snark.

snark said:

I'd be thrilled if we could find otherwise.

Click to expand...

Hi Harry! I read your very interesting post and set out to search the Japanese web in the hope of finding more information.
Unfortunately, in Japan as everywhere else, the volume of internet noise has multiplied exponentially, while the number of truly informative pages has dropped.
A few years ago, I could use a choice of search words in Japanese and come up with some really rare and helpful stuff, but that has become very difficult nowadays.
Like everywhere else, the Wikipedia cancer has spread like the disease it is. Dozens of mirror pages calling themselves Wikisomething of Thingipedia that simply copy-paste whatever is on Wikipedia, even if it's full of mistakes and approximations (which is often the case).
Look at my search results for "Grumman" "Goose" "LXG" and see what I mean...
Skyblazer's Google Search on "グラマン" "グース" "LXG"

Years ago I saved many original pages from Japanese sites that no longer exist. However, there is still one here that provides original content not mirrored from Wikipedia: http://zenibo-no-milimania.world.coocan.jp/mpljn.htm
Incidentally, when you do a different search by using only the words "Grumman" and "LXG1" and forbidding the words "Wikipedia" and "wiki", that page is quite simply the only one that comes up!
Skyblazer's Google Search on "グラマン" "LXG1" -Wikipedia -Wiki

That page, however, like all the others I had saved, states what we've already heard time and time again: that the second LXG1 (there had already been an LXG1 in 1934, the Gasuden KR-2) was a single Grumman G.21 amphibious flying boat imported in 1939...

Hi Skyblazer

1. Profuse thanks for taking the time to report the result of your search for data related to the supposed IJN G-21 (LXG). It appears that the Japanese sources disappointingly are as uninformative as the second-hand American sites. One wonders where the original report came from. This aircraft is not mentioned in Nozawa’s Encyclopedia of Japanese Aircraft, 1900-1945, vol. 6 – Imported/Captured (Shuppan-Kyodo Publishing, 1972) nor in any authoritative G-21 source that I could find. Considering the lack of evidence, I’m going to continue to exclude it from my table.
2. Regarding the other aircraft, where did you source your Boeing Company construction numbers? I’m traveling and away from my library, but I recall that mine chiefly came from Bowers’ Boeing Aircraft Since 1916 (Naval Institute Press, 1989). He alleges that two Model 100E’s (1487 and 1488) were sold to Thailand and Japan. According to http://aircraft-in-focus.com/boeing-p-12-and-f4b/ , 1488 survives in the Royal Thai Air Force Museum in Bangkok, so that leaves 1487 as the machine sold to Japan. I stopped searching at that point and didn’t become aware of the relevance of the other Model 100 demonstrators.
3. I would ask that you permit me to include your corrections in an edit to my list (Reply #10). I may retain the DC-4(E) designation, though. Even though this is a post-war revision, it was done by Douglas, the originators of the machine, and helps to clarify that the famous DC-4 airliner is an unrelated aircraft.
4. Again, thanks for all of this information. My hope in posting my table was that knowledgeable others would comment and thus guide us closer to the truth. Our Forum is an incredibly valuable historical resource, thanks to the much-appreciated diligence, persistence and accurate reporting of prolific posters like yourself.

Highest Regards, Harry

snark said:

Hi Starblazer

Click to expand...

Seriously!?!
(arf, can't blame you, I used to go by the name Stargazer2006, and now Skyblazer, no wonder you're confused. Sometimes I am myself... LOL)

snark said:

Considering the lack of evidence, I’m going to continue to exclude it from my table.

Click to expand...

Can't blame you. Especially if you said that all c/ns for the G-21 are accounted for and it's not in them!

snark said:

Where did you source your Boeing Company construction numbers? (...) I recall that mine chiefly came from Bowers’ Boeing Aircraft Since 1916 (Naval Institute Press, 1989). He alleges that two Model 100E’s (1487 and 1488) were sold to Thailand and Japan. According to http://aircraft-in-focus.com/boeing-p-12-and-f4b/ , 1488 survives in the Royal Thai Air Force Museum in Bangkok, so that leaves 1487 as the machine sold to Japan. I stopped searching at that point and didn’t become aware of the relevance of the other Model 100 demonstrators.

Click to expand...

My work on Boeing construction numbers is quite an early one. I started it during the 1990s, and I worked from many books I have and others I read in the Ottawa museum's library or on the web. As can be expected, I came across several inconsistencies during my research, but I've always made a point of solving them by cross-referencing and sometimes just being logical, too. It so happens that although 90% of what Bowers wrote was excellent and reliable, he made the occasional mistake, like we all do. It's just that when it comes from a respected author and pilot, it's a little more difficult to rectify it. If you'd like a copy of my Boeing c/n list, please send me a message.

snark said:

I would ask that you permit me to include your corrections in an edit to my list (Reply #10).

Click to expand...

By all means. I've always been of the opinion that knowledge is to be shared and expanded upon, and that it shouldn't be owned by anyone. We are all working for the common good!

snark said:

I may retain the DC-4(E) designation, though. Even though this is a post-war revision, it was done by Boeing, the originators of the machine, and helps to clarify that the famous DC-4 airliner is an unrelated aircraft.

Click to expand...

You meant Douglas of course, not Boeing... (see? we ALL make blunders every now and then! ;-) ) Yes, the "DC-4(E)" solution is a good compromise.

Hmmm -- guess I somehow managed to commingle your prior and current identities into one...

[BTW -- I fixed it] Sincere apologies to you AND Donald Douglas.

Regards, Harry