U.S Navy LAMPS (Light Airborne Multi-Purpose System) Competition

Pioneer · 5 July 2011

U.S Navy LAMPS (Light Airborne Multi-Purpose System).
I have just discovered that the U.S Navy's LAMPS competition was responded too by the following:
Boeing – Modified and assessed a prototype Messerschmitt Bolkow Blohm (MBB) Bo-105, and entered it into the LAMPS II competition.
The U.S Navy would evaluated three modified in-production helicopter designs to meet their LAMPS II requirements:
Kaman HH-2D
Westland WG.13 (Lynx)
Bell UH-1N
Also of note is the Bell Model 608 (I think it was a modified Model 206L Long Ranger?), equipped with folding rotor, MAD and a torpedo.
Can anyone verify these contenders?
Has anyone got pics or technical data of these LAMPS contenders?

Note: The LAMPS II requirement was cancelled by the US Navy in favour of LAMPS Mk III.

Regards
Pioneer

Pioneer · 5 July 2011

Just found this:

Sikorsky Aircraft Division of United Aircraft Corp and Westland Aircraft jointly announced on July 22 (1970) that they were negotiating an agreement for a marketing programme to present the Westland WG.13 (Lynx) in the United States as Sikorsky’s candidate for the U.S Navy’s proposed light airborne multi-purpose system (LAMPS).
Sikorsky said that it had made an extensive study of the requirement and selected the WG.13 because it represented the more advanced design and had the greatest present and future potential in growth and speed, both important for LAMPS aircraft. The U.S company (Sikorsky) commented that “no other helicopter, now or soon to be available comes as close to meeting the full LAMPS requirement as the WG.13”. (From: Flight International, 6 August, 1970)
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1970/1970%20-%201488.html

CostasTT · 6 July 2011

By curious coincidence, I ran into a site containing, among other things, a number of ads by Sikorsky for the SeaLynx LAMPS...

http://file.vintageadbrowser.com/50i17mq0r75gby.jpg

http://file.vintageadbrowser.com/lsienhm76fk5xu.jpg

http://file.vintageadbrowser.com/yqt4pqprca6dw6.jpg

Stargazer · 6 July 2011

Great! I wasn't aware of the SeaLynx proposal. Too bad the pics are very small, but it's a very good start. Thanks for sharing!

500 Fan · 6 July 2011

The fact that Sikorsky considered production of the Lynx is very interesting.

Hughes Helicopters also offered a version of their OH-6 in 1969 to the Navy as a possible LAMPS contender. I guess it was found to be too small for the LAMPS mission but Hughes possibly hoped to interest the Navy in their helicopter as a short-range sub-hunter based on destroyers and frigates. Hughes flew a prototype LAMPS Model 500 with two torpedoes fitted and carrying "Navy" titles in 1969.

500 Fan.

Stargazer · 6 July 2011

Here are two slightly larger versions of the SeaLynx ads, plus an extra one that's not from Sikorsky but which obviously corresponds to the same program.

Pioneer · 7 July 2011

Thank you gentlemen for your interest!
And an even bigger thank you for your productive contribution to this forum!!

SeaLynx!! - now that might make a difference in my search!

The fact that Sikorsky considered production of the Lynx is very interesting.

You have to remember that Sikorsky and Westland had a very close and productive relationship for a few decades (Westland lucratively license-manufacturing numerous Sikorsky helicopter designs).
The fact that Sikorsky had no smallish ASW-type designs of their own, I dare say meant that Westland could reciprocate the arrangement for a change!
In fact, I would love to see a Lynx in USN livery (perhaps on 'What If' Forum Stargazer

)

Hughes Helicopters also offered a version of their OH-6 in 1969 to the Navy as a possible LAMPS contender.

Wow thanks 500 Fan!!
Do you have pictures to go with this??

Regards
Pioneer

CostasTT · 7 July 2011

Stargazer2006 said:
Great! I wasn't aware of the SeaLynx proposal. Too bad the pics are very small, but it's a very good start. Thanks for sharing!

You are most welcome.
Thanks for the larger versions, too.

RavenOne · 7 July 2011

Interesting enough smaller navies are using the BO-105 and OH-6/MD-500 airframes such as Colombia, Mexico, Philippines, Spain. But for sure it is interesting to see the pamphlets for the proposed Long Ranger and BO-105 for LAMPS and looking forward to see them posted. I, myself am quite surprised to see our Lynx being put forward for the LAMPS competition 4 decades ago.

500 Fan · 7 July 2011

Pioneer, I have no photos to share, unfortunately. There is one photo in Wayne Mutza's book "Loach", but I don't want to infringe on the copyright by posting that photo on the web. There are two photos available on the web, but I'm not able to link to them. If you do a search in the "Flight Global Archives", you will find them. Do the search under "Hughes OH-6A ASW" between the years of 1969 and 1971. The file numbers for the two pages with the photos are "1969-1163" and "1970-0234". The second photo shows the prototype fitted with a MAD Bird. It looks like this served as the prototype for the Hughes 500M/ASW purchased by Spain in the early seventies. If anyone has any other photos of the Hughes 500 ASW prototype, I'd love to see them. Thanks.

500 Fan.

Nico · 12 July 2011

Hi Pioneer and all friends,
searching my archives I found some pictures of the various LAMPS II and III proposals.
Unfortunately, I remember a sketch (perhaps from an ad appeared on 'Aviation Week') of a Bell proposal different from the AB-212/UH-1N derivative and vaguely resembling Model 222, but I was unable to retrieve it.
I found the mock-up of the Boeing LAMPS MK.II (a dedicated version of the MBB, former Boelkow, Bo 105) and the subsequent LAMPS MK.III, based on the V-179/YUH-61A losing UTTAS proposal, the mock-up of the Kaman LAMPS MK.III (in folded and unfolded configurations) and an artist's impression of the Hughes LAMPS MK.III proposal.
Enjoy

Nico

Stargazer · 12 July 2011

Nico, you've made my day. I'd already heard of the Boeing Vertol Executaire, a licensed Bö 105, but not of a LAMPS derivative! And that Hughes design is complete news to me... So thanks a bunch!

500 Fan · 12 July 2011

Thanks for that great selection of images, Nico. If you have any more information on any Hughes LAMPS helicopter, be it a version of the Model 500 or another, like the Hughes LAMPS III, I'd love to see it. Thanks.

500 Fan.

Nico · 13 July 2011

Dear 500 fan,
I have only a faint memory of a Model 369/500 armed with two light torpedoes but it could be a proposal from the Italian licensee Breda Nardi, offered to Italian Navy as a competitor of the Agusta-Bell AB-212 ASW. For the moment I fail to find any photograph or impression but if I find one surely I'll post it here.
About the AB-212 ASW officially it was even depicted as an in-house development, based on the experience of the previous AB-204 AS (a "marinised" version of the UH-1B), but sometime the press referred to it as "the Ialian LAMPS" and we cannot rule-out some connections between the Bell LAMPS Mk.II proposal and the Agusta-Bell AB-212 ASW.
Nico

hesham · 13 July 2011

Hi,

for the Hughes proposal,I think it was Model-1000,and may be it led to develop the
Model-2000 ?!.

RavenOne · 14 July 2011

Many thanks to everyone for On a lighter media based note regarding the proposed BO105 ASW variant, I wonder if Irwin Kershner and his producers for Never Say Never Again read the LAMPS proposal and decided to put a 'what if' as there's a BO105 in USN colours hoisting Sean Connery from the wells near the end of the movie where he rescues Kim Basinger!

I worked with the BO105 for a few years in the parapublic marketplace and it's one heck of a good light twin beasty. When it first came out in the late 60s early 70s it was ahead of it's time.

Btw according to a Spanish military magazine which had a Spanish Naval Aviation special in March 2004 as it was the 50th anniversary, there was a chapter dedicated to each squadron and one was that flew the Hughes 369 (formerly ASW role) in the laser targeting/FAC role, supporting their Marines. Anyhow there was subjected to replacement by BO105 as there was a photo of a proposed variant model.

Cheers

frank · 14 July 2011

Maybe they just liked the Bo 105. IIRC, there's another JB movie (I'm not fan, so.....) that has a Bo 105 dressed in Soviet markings doing something.

RavenOne said:
Many thanks to everyone for On a lighter media based note regarding the proposed BO105 ASW variant, I wonder if Irwin Kershner and his producers for Never Say Never Again read the LAMPS proposal and decided to put a 'what if' as there's a BO105 in USN colours hoisting Sean Connery from the wells near the end of the movie where he rescues Kim Basinger!
I worked with the BO105 for a few years in the parapublic marketplace and it's one heck of a good light twin beasty. When it first came out in the late 60s early 70s it was ahead of it's time.

Btw according to a Spanish military magazine which had a Spanish Naval Aviation special in March 2004 as it was the 50th anniversary, there was a chapter dedicated to each squadron and one was that flew the Hughes 369 (formerly ASW role) in the laser targeting/FAC role, supporting their Marines. Anyhow there was subjected to replacement by BO105 as there was a photo of a proposed variant model.

Cheers

RavenOne said:
Many thanks to everyone for On a lighter media based note regarding the proposed BO105 ASW variant, I wonder if Irwin Kershner and his producers for Never Say Never Again read the LAMPS proposal and decided to put a 'what if' as there's a BO105 in USN colours hoisting Sean Connery from the wells near the end of the movie where he rescues Kim Basinger!

I worked with the BO105 for a few years in the parapublic marketplace and it's one heck of a good light twin beasty. When it first came out in the late 60s early 70s it was ahead of it's time.

Btw according to a Spanish military magazine which had a Spanish Naval Aviation special in March 2004 as it was the 50th anniversary, there was a chapter dedicated to each squadron and one was that flew the Hughes 369 (formerly ASW role) in the laser targeting/FAC role, supporting their Marines. Anyhow there was subjected to replacement by BO105 as there was a photo of a proposed variant model.

Cheers

Pioneer · 15 July 2011

Wow......fantastic effort and contribution Nico, with your grouse pics!!!!

Thanks heaps ;D

Regards
Pioneer

Nico · 24 July 2011

Still looking at that matter, I found two more pics:
one is the roll-out of the Boeing LAMPS III proposal mock-up. The caption (from Aviation Week) reads:
Boeing Vertol mockup of its candidate for the U. S. Navy's light airborne multipurpose system (Lamps) helicopter competition is rolled out at the firm's Philadelphia, Pa, production plant.
The second one is more interesing as depicts:
Kaman Sealite helicopter design, based on company's UH-2 dynamic system and powered by two United Aircraft of Canada PT6T-400-CP-480 engines.
I think the Sealite was an UH-2C derivative designed for LAMPS I or II.
Nico

Stargazer · 24 July 2011

The Kaman K-820 Sealite was proposed for the LAMPS III competition.

Here is a three-view plan, and a series of pictures of the mock-up, which looked a lot more like a regular Seasprite than the artwork.

Nico · 9 August 2011

...answering Fan 500 request, I finally found those 1980 pictures depicting the Hughes Model 500M-D ASW Defender; I think that copter was offered also by the Italian licensee BredaNardi.
ASW configuration Defender was not related with LAMPS effort but perhaps implemented some naval features of previous projects for LAMPS I and II requirements

Nico

Stingray · 18 November 2011

Bell 608 from "The Bell Helicopter Textron Story" by David Brown:

fightingirish · 19 November 2011

Hi Stingray and folks,
here the Bell 608 in colour and a Bell "SH-1?" ??? model. The source is the Naval Helicopter Historical Society Collection @ San Diego Air & Space Museum Archives.
Link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/sets/72157627928485093/

Edit:
Man with helicopter rotors of the Bell 608
Close up of mechanism on rotor of the Bell 608
Close up of cargo load gear on the Bell 608
Close up of the rescue hook on the Bell 608
View into helicopter window of the Bell 608
Helicopter control panel, probably Bell 608

Boxman · 19 November 2011

fightingirish said:
Hi Stingray and folks,
here the Bell 608 in colour and a Bell "SH-1?" ??? model. The source is the Naval Helicopter Historical Society Collection @ San Diego Air & Space Museum Archives.
Link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/sets/72157627928485093/

Edit:
Man with helicopter rotors of the Bell 608
Close up of mechanism on rotor of the Bell 608
Close up of cargo load gear on the Bell 608
Close up of the rescue hook on the Bell 608
View into helicopter window of the Bell 608
Helicopter control panel, probably Bell 608

Here's another photo of the same helicopter (N1366X, c/n 11), mis-captioned as a "BAC 206 Jet Ranger," at the SDASM Archives photostream.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/6334798035/in/photostream

fightingirish · 21 December 2011

LAMPS model, probably based on the Bell 206 Jet Ranger.

Source: Flickr Fotostream von San Diego Air & Space Museum Archives

Triton · 21 December 2011

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/6521868261/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/6521868267/

famvburg · 22 December 2011

I can't beleive it's a Jet Ranger OR a Huey!

fightingirish said:
LAMPS model, probably based on the Bell 206 Jet Ranger.

Source: Flickr Fotostream von San Diego Air & Space Museum Archives

SlickDriver · 23 December 2011

famvburg said:
I can't beleive it's a Jet Ranger OR a Huey!

fightingirish said:

LAMPS model, probably based on the Bell 206 Jet Ranger.

Source: Flickr Fotostream von San Diego Air & Space Museum Archives

Click to expand...

Neither can I - way to large for a Jet Ranger and way too small for a Huey

JFC Fuller · 24 December 2011

Reading about this today, apparently two of the Kaman Sealite would fit in the hangar of a Knox class and three would fit in the hangar of a Spruance. The variations in the types appearance may be explained by the fact that in 1969 the max gross weight was reported at 8,800lbs but by 1970 was being reported as 10,200lbs.

Stargazer · 15 May 2012

Two Bell advertisements about the LAMPS proposal:

circle-5 · 15 May 2012

Westland factory model of proposed WG.13 LAMPS helicopter (U.S. Navy) from 1970.

Stargazer · 15 May 2012

circle-5 said:
Westland factory model of proposed WG.13 LAMPS helicopter (U.S. Navy).

This was submitted jointly with Sikorsky.

SpudmanWP · 15 May 2012

Found this one:

Stargazer · 15 May 2012

Nice Taiwanese H-6... but what has this got to do with the LAMPS competition?!?

SpudmanWP · 15 May 2012

I mistook it for the Hughes Model 500M-D ASW Defender

Stargazer · 15 May 2012

SpudmanWP said:
I mistook it for the Hughes Model 500M-D ASW Defender

Ah, okay... You were right in fact, but I think it might have helped to use the "quote" function so that the connection to this topic could be made more obvious. I'd completely forgotten about why that Defender was in the thread in the first place... :

Nico said:
...answering Fan 500 request, I finally found those 1980 pictures depicting the Hughes Model 500M-D ASW Defender; I think that copter was offered also by the Italian licensee BredaNardi.
ASW configuration Defender was not related with LAMPS effort but perhaps implemented some naval features of previous projects for LAMPS I and II requirements

Pioneer · 16 May 2012

Hey great find with the 'Westland WG.13 factory model' circle-5
Love your work!!!!!

Regards
Pioneer

Stargazer · 16 May 2012

Stingray™ said:
Bell 608 from "The Bell Helicopter Textron Story" by David Brown:

I'd be very curious to know why the Bell Model 608 has been included in this topic. To the best of my knowledge, it was submitted for the little-known LASH (Light Anti Submarine Helicopter). What I do not know is how LASH fits in with the LAMPS competition. Any ideas?

Stingray · 16 May 2012

I didn't even know it was a part of a different program. When Ray contributed the picture to my site in the parallel LAMPS topic I assumed it was also part of the same competition.

Stargazer · 17 May 2012

Stingray™ said:
I didn't even know it was a part of a different program. When Ray contributed the picture to my site in the parallel LAMPS topic I assumed it was also part of the same competition.

Well MAYBE it is! I wonder if LASH could be an inhouse designation by Bell for a LAMPS contender, hence my question...
We have three LAMPS competitions and three Bell contenders identified, and the 608 is none of them.
So my idea is that perhaps it was submitted as a second, later proposal for LAMPS (I) but I can find nothing on the subject.
Anyone, help! (I'm sure rotorwash would know, Travis).

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