Morane Saulnier Statodyne Projects

cluttonfred · 17 March 2011

Random thought....

Have there been any designs for jet VTOL tailsitters, on paper or actually built, with the engine reversed in the airframe and the efflux turned 180 degrees or so to exit from the nose? It's not hard to imagine such a design with a pair of Harrier-style rotating louvers for pitch and role control and perhaps a couple of small vanes to divert the efflux for yaw control, or perhaps four rotating louvers to do all four. You would think that there would be advantages in terms of reduced ground interaction effects and increased "pendulum" stability from hanging the aircraft by the nose, so to speak. Examples? Thoughts?

Cheers,

Matthew

robunos · 17 March 2011

Examples?

Try the Morane-Saulnier 'Statodynes'.
There's an excellent article in 'Air Enthusiast' 103, January/February 2003, pp.24-8.
See below for a taster...

cheers,
Robin.

cluttonfred · 17 March 2011

Thanks, Robin. It appears from what I can find on the net that the Statodyne was a twin-engine design with one engine exhausting out the tail, conventionally, and the other exhausting out of the dorsal and ventral nozzles just aft of the cockpit. I was thinking of a design with all the thrust coming from such forward nozzles, perhaps even in front of the cockpit, and none from the tail. But this is close, thanks!

Jemiba · 18 March 2011

Clinging to those Statodyne designs made by Georges Caillette, maybe the
type E.5 comes closer, as it wouldn't have had a rear nozzle, but only the
annular shaped front one. The type was intended as a trainer aircraft for
exercising take-off and especially landing of a tailsitter, so the rear nozzle,
principally wasn't regarded as necessary.

cluttonfred · 18 March 2011

Neat! Was it intended to be a ducted fan powered by a turboshaft, a turbofan with a really big first turbine, or some other powerplant?

martinbayer · 18 March 2011

Matthew,

while such an installation could indeed offer decreased ground impact of the exhaust, the idea of increasing stability is a fallacy, since a mechanical analogy for a thrust vector of a jet or rocket nozzle is more like pushing (or pulling) a stick gripped on a firm handle rather than one balanced on (or dangling from) a finger. A related discussion for rocket engines, which also applies to airbreathing jets, is given here:

http://unreasonablerocket.blogspot.com/2007/11/most-common-misconception.html

Martin

Jemiba · 18 March 2011

Mole said:
Neat! Was it intended to be a ducted fan powered by a turboshaft, a turbofan with a really big first turbine, or some other powerplant?

Powerplant is said to have been a Bristol Orpheus or a SNECMA ATAR, coupled with a “Volant-turbine libre”, which
I think was a counter rotating free wheel to counter gyrscopic effects.

hesham · 23 July 2013

Hi,

here is the Morane-Saulnier MS.1001 Statodyne projects from;

http://crimso.msk.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft21839.htm

and also from Air Enthusiast No.103.

hesham · 23 July 2013

Stargazer · 23 July 2013

Very nice set of projects.

For some reason I was certain we already had a topic on the Statodyne, but couldn't find any.

We have these two mentions with pictures though:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12205.msg119249.html#msg119249
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2140.msg95718.html#msg95718

hesham · 23 July 2013

Yes Stargazer,

I used the search and found those topics,but here,they are collected.

visvirtusvoluntas · 25 July 2013

What a crazy idea that opposite turbojet with inverted flow...
Very interesting, however. A usual!

Jemiba · 27 July 2013

Have merged the two topics actually dealing with the Statodyne (the MS.1001 was just one design,
that's why I not used that designation in the title) concept and will try to add some additional information:
The concept was based on patents filed by Georges Caillette during the 1950s, when the tailsitter concept
was still favored for VTOL. Stability in the vertical attitude was achieved by positioning the centre of gravity
behind the centre of thrust (CT), keeping the aircraft in a vertical hover stable in the same manner, as an
inverted U-shaped perpendicular can be balanced on the fingertip. In all winged Statodyne designs, the aero-
dynamic center (CL) was positioned behind the centre of gravity. So transition to horizontal flight would be
achieved automatically with increasing airspeed, as aerodynamic lift increases and the aircraft would be
brought to a horizontal attitude. Another feature of several Statodyne designs was the installation of two engines
with their inlets face-to-face, the lower engine with the nozzle in a conventional way at the rear of the fuselage, but
the other exhausting via bifurcated or mushroom-shaped jet pipes at the forward fuselage. Although requiring
quite complicated inlet and exhaust ducts, this arrangement offered the benefit of compensating gyroscopic
effects and the possibility to shift the centre of thrust by individual power settings for the two engines.
Two layouts from the mentioned patents are shown below.

Jemiba · 27 July 2013

Amongst the proposals, that should lead to a service type, were the Statodyne B, as an unmanned proof-of-concept demonstrator,
and the manned E-designs, as experimental/test aircraft, or later trainer.

hesham · 27 July 2013

Great drawings my dear Jemiba,

and welcome your return.

Jemiba · 27 July 2013

Main aim was the development of a single seat VTOL interceptor, which was designated MS.1001
Besides the relatively conventional layout with two wings and fins, three and four winged versions
were proposed (the one with four cruciform wings isn't shown in the sources known to me, so the
sketch is just conjectured).

Stargazer · 27 July 2013

Once again Jens, you make an invaluable contribution. Thanks a lot for this!

Jemiba · 27 July 2013

Besides the interceptor type, statodyne concept was proposed to be used for a kind of a
flying jeep, too, a drawing that appeared in several publications, seem to show a kind of
a test vehicle, two others are shown in Henri Lacazes new book "Morane Saulnier - Ses
Avions, Ses Projets".
Another project for an interceptor, although numbered amongst the Statodyne designs,
is to my opinion only related on the edge of that principle. It's the "Staodyne F" rocket
powered interceptor, may be a later relative to designs as the Bachem Natter. There are
drawings floating around, said to be manufacturers drawings, showing it with the pilot in
prone position, or better standing in the small gondola. This aircraft should have been
launched with the help of solid fueled booster rockets and probably landed on its belly,
so the prone position seems not very useful to me. Comments welcome !

Jemiba · 27 July 2013

And as line drawings may be boring sometimes, I'll add some colour to this subject:

Purely What-If, of course !
Some years ago, I've tried to put the whole story, as far as it was known then (still without
the additions made by Henri Lacazes book) into a summary. Those interested feel free to
PM me (with mail adress), I'll send the file, about 2 MB then via email.

jasonckoval · 22 February 2021

Just purchased the Sharkit model kit via ebay. I'm thinking of a "what-if" scheme that might be applicable. Any suggestions?

Grey Havoc · 23 February 2021

Perhaps a RAF trainer scheme with evaluation unit markings?

A very quick overview of RAF training aircraft schemes over the years:

Training Aircraft Colour Schemes | Taking flight | Exhibitions & Displays | Research | RAF Museum

Training Aircraft Colour Schemes RAF training aircraft have sported a number of colour schemes over the years. The basic idea was to improve visibility of training aircraft …

www.rafmuseum.org.uk

Jemiba · 23 February 2021

To my opinion, the E.4 would have been mainly a trainer for the landing procedure of a tailsitter
(see pilot position). And judging the actual position/attitude from the ground (strictly a single seater,
so the only advise from the flight instructor would have been via radio), could have been difficult, so I
would include some kind of high visibility marks to the colour scheme, that would make this easier.
If the concept of the Statodyne would have found users outside France, depends on your scenario.

CiTrus90 · 23 February 2021

jasonckoval said:
Just purchased the Sharkit model kit via ebay. I'm thinking of a "what-if" scheme that might be applicable. Any suggestions?

When in doubt or looking for inspiration, I always take a look over at Wings Palette to see if anything catches my fancy. Maybe some Fouga Magister schemes like the ones here?

dannydale · 1 March 2021

These things look like they'd make pretty good designs for very high speed VTOL drones.

klem · 9 October 2024

Georges Caillette Patent Specification "Dirigible Craft".

klem · 10 October 2024

We sometimes refer to certain creations or achievements by the name of the company, as in the case of the SA-610 Ludion developed by Sud-Aviation, mentioned in this forum without mentioning its designer, Georges Caillette, better known for his Statodyne.

publiusr · 12 October 2024

Design by Dr. Alexi Zarkov

Morane Saulnier Statodyne Projects

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