MSrE Designations -- Hungarian Aircraft Designs

Aircraft from Hungary:

Muegyetemi M-28 Daru :high wing three seat monoplane with a fixed
tailwheel u/c and a 240 hp Argus 10c engine.
Lampich D-20 Pajtas :low wing side-by-side two seat trainer with enclosed
canopy and fixed tailwheel u/c, powered by a 105
Walter Minor engine.

MSrE stands for the Müegyetemi Sportrepülö Egyesület or (Budapest) Technical University Sport Fliers Association. The acronym is sometimes listed as 'MSE' (as in the Golden Years of Aviation civilian aircraft registration lists).

Wikipedia lists the MSrE series as: L-1, L-2, L-4, BL-5, BL-6, BL-7, L-9, Gerle 12, Gerle 13 , Gerle 14, Gerle 15, BL-16, M-19, M-20, M-21, M-22, M-24, M-25, M-27, M-28, M-29, M-30. But there's a few gaps in that listing.

Earlier MSrE designations are based on designer(s)' initials: So L-x for Árpád Lampich and then BL-xx for joint Antal Bánhidi/Árpád Lampich designs. These were replaced by 'M' for MSrE designations in the same numerical sequence. The an EM-xx designation sequence overlapped with and finally replaced the MSrE M-xx sequence. In this case, 'EM' was short for EMESE - the name of MSrE's Experimental Aircraft Factory Ltd. located at Ferihegy which actually built the aircraft.

Note that the MSrE acronym is pronounced 'emese' in Hungarian. Hence the popular 'name' for the M-20 glider - better-known as the EMESE-B and EMESE-C but not part of the EM-xx designation sequence.
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MSrE Aircraft [http://gliders-fega.fw.hu/MSrE.html]

MSrE Head of Planning Árpád Lampich
Engines designed by gróf Péter Thoroczkay (Thorotzkai or Thorotzkay)
-- http://igazmagyarok.uw.hu/HU/01-tortenelem/alakok/Thorotzkay-Peter.htm

L-1 - 1924 Mama Kedvence* single-seat light monoplane
- L-1: 1 x 12 hp Thoroczkay 2-cyl HO engine, span ?? m
-- Designed by Árpád Lampich, * 'Mama's Favorite/Darling'
-- ** Péter Thoroczkay was a member of MSrE
-- http://gliders-fega.fw.hu/L-1.jpg

L-2 - 1925 Róma* single-seat shoulder-wing light monoplane
- L-2: 1 x 18 hp Thoroczkay Delta 3-cyl, span 10.60 m, x 1*
-- Árpád Lampich design, ** H-MAFD/HA-AFD flown 04 Sept 1925
-- * Final stop on world-record long-distance flight
-- http://gliders-fega.fw.hu/L-2.jpg

L-3 - (??)

L-4 - 1926 Bohóc* single-seat aerobatic biplane
- L-4 : 1 x 35 hp Thoroczkay 5-cyl. radial, span 5.60 m
-- * 'Clown', design by Árpád Lampich, x 1 (H-MAFE)
- L-4/60: 1930 rebuild, 1 x 60 hp WM/Siemens Sh.10
-- Design by Lampich, , 1 built 1926 (1930 )
-- http://gliders-fega.fw.hu/L-4.jpg

BL-5 - 1928 2-seat trainer/aerobatic biplane, 2 x built*
- BL-5: 1 x 120 hp Bristol Lucifer radial,** span 8.20 m
-- Antal Bánhidi/Árpád Lampich design, rebuilt as BL-7
-- * H-MAFH (1928), HA-AFL (1929, rebuilt as BL-7)
-- ** NB: HA-AFL was orig. fitted with a cowling
-- http://gliders-fega.fw.hu/BL-5.jpg
-- http://www.avia-info.hu/Kep/Civil/H-M/H-MAFL.jpg
-- http://www.avia-info.hu/Kep/Civil/HA-A_K/HA-AFL-3.jpg

BL-6 - 1927 tandem 2-seat biplane trainer
- BL-6: 1 x 100 hp WM/Siemens-Halske Sh 11, span 8.20 m
-- Designed by Antal Bánhidi and Árpád Lampich
-- http://gliders-fega.fw.hu/BL-6.jpg
-- 2 x built: H-MAFF/HA-AFF, H-MAFK/HA-AFK

BL-7 - 1932 Holló (Crow) 2-seat aerobatic biplane
- BL-7: Rebuilt BL-5, redesigned by Rubik and Pap
- BL-7: 1 x 110 hp WM/Siemens-Halske Sh 12, span 8.20
-- HA-AFL: http://gliders-fega.fw.hu/BL-7.jpg

BL-8 - 1932 2-seat tandem training biplane, x 1
- BL-8: Developed in parallel with aerobatic BL-7
- BL-8: BL-5 deriv. (or poss. rebuilt BL-5 HA-AFH)

L-9 - 1929 Veréb (Sparrow) 2-seat low-wing light monoplane
- L-9 : 1 x 35 hp Thoroczkay 3-cyl, span ?? m
-- 1 x L-9 Veréb built, H-MAFN
-- http://gliders-fega.fw.hu/L-9-1.jpg
-- https://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/GyenesCollin/12558.htm
- L-9-II: 1 x 84 hp Thorotzkai 3-cyl, span ?? m, x 1*
-- * HA-AAC, sold to Austria 1932
-- http://gliders-fega.freeweb.hu/L-9-2.jpg

??-10 - (??)

At this point, it is tempting to insert the series of Gerle (Turtle Dove) light aircraft designed by Antal Bánhidi since their sub-type numbers seem to fill the gap. The Gerleseries were tandem-seat biplanes of mixed construction. Wings (of Göttingen 412 section) were spruce and plywood structures with ply-covered leading edges and fabric aft. The fuselage and tailplane were constructed of welded steel-tubes covered with fabric.

MSrE Gerle 11 - Sept 1930 prototype, x 1, c/n 11, H-MAFM
- Gerle 11 : 1 x 140 hp BSZKRT S.E. Csikó, span 8.20 m
- Gerle 11 : H-MAFM crashed June 1932, Malmslött airshow

MSrE Gerle 12 - HA-AAE, 1st prod. model, c/n 12, MSrE x 1
- Gerle 12 : 100 hp Thorotzkay*/130 hp Manfred Weiss Sp III
-- + Replica** Gerle 12 operated by Goldtimer Foundation
-- * Designed by MSrE's Péter Thoroczkay de Thorockószentgyörgy
-- ** c/n F-04, orig. constructed as a Gerle 13 replica

MSrE Gerle 13 - HA-AAI, radial engine, c/n 13, MSrE x 1
- Gerle 13: 1 x 100 hp AS Genet Major, span 8.95 m
-- 1933 12,258 km distance flight around the Mediterranean

MSrE Gerle 14 - 1933 inline engine prod'n vers., x 3
- Gerle 14: 3 x MSrE built, HA-AAN , HA-NAG, & HA-NAH
- Gerle 14: 100 hp Manfred Weiss Soport-1,* span 8.85 m
-- HA-AAN c/n 14 only known Gerle 14 constr. number
-- 1 x Gerle 14 served Hung.AF as I.829, crashed 1941
-- HA-NAH crashed glider-towing in 1943, Kefei Ferenc killed
-- * Some source have HA-NAH w/ Walter Minor, re-engined (?)

MSrE Gerle 15 - HA-BEO, c/n 15, on 1937 Paraguay expedition*
- Gerle 15: 100 hp AS Genet Major radial, span 8.85 m
-- * Expedition org. by Hungarian Prince Albrecht, with HA-BLO
-- Gerle 15 sold 1942 in Argentina, re-registered as LV-NBL
-- https://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Banhidi-Gerle/1637412

MSrE Gerle 16 - HA-BLO, c/n (?), on 1937 Paraguay expedition*
- Gerle 16: Orig. single-seater (LR tank as Gerle 13?)
- Gerle 16: 100 hp AS Genet Major radial, span 8.85 m
-- * Expedition org. by Hungarian Prince Albrecht, with HA-BEO
-- NB: Gerle 16 built by Wiener Neustädter Flugzeugwerke

MSrE Gerle 17 - OE-OND then HA-NAC, c/n (?), 1 x WNF built
- Gerle 17: 1 x 100 hp (??) engine,* span 8.85 m (?)
-- * Almost certainly an AS Genet Major 5-cylinder radial

MSrE Gerle 18 - Last prod'n type, 1 x Wiener Neustädter
- Gerle 18: 125 hp Siemens-Halske Sh 14 7-cyl. radial

The one fly in the ointment of inserting the Gerle series is the duplication of '16'!

BL-16 - 1935 Haris (Corncrake) 2-seat biplane, x 1*
- BL-16: Tandem-seat, single-bay,** trainer/glider tug
- BL-16: 1 x 140 hp WM/Siemens Sh.12 radial, span 9.50 m
- BL-16: Sim. to Gerle but more compact airframe
- * HA-RIS; ** additional fuselage-to-wing bracing strut
-- https://www.avia-info.hu/Kep/Civil/HA-N_S/HA-RIS-1.jpg
-- NB: LS-16 training glider of 1939 is wholly unrelated

??-17 - (??)

??-18 - (??)

M-19 - 1937 2-seat low-wing monoplane tourer, x 1*
- M-19 : Enclosed cabin, elliptical wings, spats
- M-19 : 1 x 130 hp DH Gypsy Major, span 10.20 m
- M-19a: Rebuilt after July 1937 crash, burned 1942
-- * HA-NAA, designed by Ernő Rubik, aka R-02
-- M-19 http://gliders-fega.fw.hu/M-19.jpg
-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSrE_M-19

M-20 - 1936 single-seat training sailplane, x 1
- M-20: Span 12.56 m, aka EMESE-B & EMESE-C*
- M-20: Ernő Rubik and Endre Janscó design
-- EMESE-B: 1936, open, wooden-framed fuselage
-- EMESE-C: 1937 rebuild, ply-covered steel frame
-- * Also aka R-01 after head designer Ernő Rubik

M-21 - 1937 Harag (Fury) single-seat aerobatic biplane
- M-21: 1 x 160 hp WM/Siemens Sh 14A 7-cyl, span 8.30 m
-- Jancsó/Szegedy design, aka Szegedy M-21, x 1 (HA-RAG)
-- http://gliders-fega.fw.hu/M-21.jpg
-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSrE_M-21

M-22 - 1937 Kanya (Kite) high-performance sailplane
- M-22: Single-seat high-po/aerobatic sailplane, x 3*
- M-22: Span 15.00 m, mid-set gull wing
-- Endrével Jancsó and József Szegedy design
-- 3 built by MSrE 1937-38, 17 more built outside 1942-43
-- photos/3v/details - http://gliders-fega.fw.hu/m-22.html

M-23 - (??) Possibly a glider

M-24 - 1938 Courier 2-seat cabin monoplane tourer
- M-24 : Eliptical, low reversed-gull wing, retract. u/c
- M-24 : 1 x 100 hp Hirth HM 504A-2 4-cyl, span 10.90 m
- M-24B: HA-NAW, no details
-- Endre Jancsó/József Szegedy design, 5 built 1938-1940*
-- * M-24s HA-NAE, 'NAM-'NAN, 'NAV, and M-24B HA-NAW**
-- ** Hungarian Gliders says 7 x M-24s were built
-- M-24 - http://gliders-fega.fw.hu/M-24.jpg

M-25 - 1940 Nebuló (Urchin) 2-seat cabin monoplane tourer
- M-25: Evol. of 1938 M-24 Courier, Endre Jancsó design
- M-25: 1 x 103 hp Hirth HM 504A-2, x 3 (Hungarian Gliders)*
-- *Golden Years lists fourteen M-25s - HA-NAK, 'NAX-'NAZ, 'NBA-'NBJ
-- M-25: http://gliders-fega.fw.hu/M-25.jpg

M-26 (??)

M-27 - 1943 tandem 2-seat fighter trainer, 1 x prototype
- M-27: 1 x 236 kW Argus As 10C V-8, span 10.90 m
-- aka EMESE EM-27 (Hung. pronunc. of MSrE acronym MSrE)
-- 1942 design by Endre Jancsó and József Szegedy
-- HA-NBU 3v: http://gliders-fega.freeweb.hu/M-27-3n.jpg

M-28 - 1949* Daru (Crane) high-winged monoplane
- M-28: Designed in 1943 as 4-seat utility a/c,* x 1
-- Ferenc Zámolyi/Emil Lakatos design, used as glider tug
- M-28: 1 x 236 hp Argus As 10C V-8, span ?? m
-- * Usually listed as 1950, year of Sirály u/c mod's
-- http://gliders-fega.fw.hu/M-28(1949).jpg

M-29 - 1943 Csóka (Jackdaw) low-wing monoplane, x 1
- M-29: Side-by-side 2-seater, 1 x prototype HA-NBM
- M-29: 1 x 103 hp MÁVAG-Hirth HM 504-A2, span ?? m
-- M-29 employed as training/liaison a/c, aka EM-29
-- HA-NBM: http://gliders-fega.freeweb.hu/m-29.jpg

M-30 - 1948 Fergeteg (Storm) high-performance glider
- M-30: Tandem 2-seat sailplane, span 18.00 m
-- Designed by Lajos Beniczky in 1944
-- aka Beniczky M-30, Sirály M-30 (re-desig. postwar prod.)
- Photos/3v/details: http://gliders-fega.fw.hu/fergeteg.html

EM-31 - (Project) 19?? Kotlós (Hatchling) 2-engined tourer
- EM-31: 4-seat tourer, not completed, no other details

EM-32 - (Project) 19?? Kóbor (Adventurer?), 2-engined tourer
- EM-32: 4-seat tourer, 2 x 40 hp, not completed, no other details
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Thank you my dear Apophenia for that great work,

but for this company,something make me confuse,in google
the M-22 refer to it as Lampich NL-XXII of 1937,but I know
that the Lampich D-20 was a two-seat trainer aircraft of
1955,now how come ?,or lampich had anther list ?.

Thanks Hesham. Yes, the Lampich NL-XXII belongs to a separate designation series. And this Austria built aircraft was a powered 2-seat biplane trainer -- nothing at all like the MSrE's M-22 sailplane.

The NL stand for Neustädter/Lampich NL-XXII because these aircraft were built in Austria by WNF or the Wiener Neustädter Flughafenbetriebs GmbH (later Wiener Neustädter Flugzeugwerke GmbH, formerly the Phoenix Flugzeugwerk). Hungarian sources refer to this aircraft as the NL XXII/37.

That said, WNF did produce other MSrE designs in Austria -- the Árpád Lampich's L-9 Veréb and Antal Bànhidi's Gerle 16/17/18. During WWII, WNF built Bf-109s and Hopfner/Hirtenberg designs (speaking of which, does anyone know the more streamlined WNF Wn 11C ?).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_aircraft_of_Germany_by_manufacturer#Wiener_Neustadter_Flugzeugwerk_.28WNF.29

BTW, Lampich's less powerful biplane trainer, the NL XXI/36 was exported to Hungary (HA-VAG in 1939), as were two NL XXII/37s (HA-VAG & HA-VAH).

My dear Apophenia,

I would like to speak seperatly about Lampich,specially he had a glider
aircraft called LS-16,that makes me confuse;

http://www.j2mcl-planeurs.net/dbj2mcl/planeurs-machines/planeur-fiche_0int.php?code=1671

Hesham, as the Jereb Gábor site shows, nobody really knows what company built Árpád Lampich's 1939 LS-16. So, hard to know if that 'S' in the LS-16 designation stands for. http://gliders-fega.fw.hu/ls-16.html

It doesn't seem to be part of the MSrE or Neustädter designation sequences. And, when Lampich was joined by another designer, his initial came last - eg: the MSrE BL-x series designed with Antal Bánhidi.

New Info,thank you my dear Apophenia.

Hi,

BL-8 was also two-seat biplane trainer airplane,looks like BL-7,or developed in parallel with it.
M-23 was a glider as I think.
EM-31 Kotlós was a four-seat twin engined tourist airplane,never completed.
EM-32 Kóbor was a two-seat twin engined tourist airplane,also never completed.

hesham said:

Lampich D-20 Pajtas :low wing side-by-side two seat trainer with enclosed
canopy and fixed tailwheel u/c, powered by a 105
Walter Minor engine.

Click to expand...

If we look to Lampich himself,

he created from L-1 to L-9 for MSrE,then he continued to NL-XXI and NL-XXII light aircraft up to 1937,
but maybe he re-allocated some numbers,just as LS-16 & D-20 Pajtas ?.

hesham said:

Hi,

BL-8 was also two-seat biplane trainer airplane,looks like BL-7,or developed in parallel with it.
M-23 was a glider as I think.
EM-31 Kotlós was a four-seat twin engined tourist airplane,never completed.
EM-32 Kóbor was a two-seat twin engined tourist airplane,also never completed.

Click to expand...

From Hungarian magazine.

My dear Apophenia,

I have you add the new discovered to the list.

hesham said:

My dear Apophenia,

I have you add the new discovered to the list.

Click to expand...

Have done hesham. I also took the opportunity to re-format (for clarity) and add a few more details and links.

I can't make much headway with your clippings in Google Translate. I suppose we must wait for a willing Hungarian reader in order to glean more details.

hesham said:

hesham said:

BL-8 was also two-seat biplane trainer airplane,looks like BL-7,or developed in parallel with it.
M-23 was a glider as I think.
EM-31 Kotlós was a four-seat twin engined tourist airplane,never completed.
EM-32 Kóbor was a two-seat twin engined tourist airplane,also never completed.

Click to expand...

From Hungarian magazine.

Click to expand...

Thank you my dear Apophenia,

and from google,here is the translation;

-Bándi - Lampich BL-7 and BL-8 two-seater two-seater school aircraft, essentially one of the BL-5. with machine New strain, planar with structure and chassiswith experiments on, Gerle, experimental transformations and measurements were made
on. Marking: HA-AFI ..

-BL-16 Haris is a two-seat, two-headed school and a hiking machine. It was needed in 1934
a machine that is not just a good school machine, but also a great traveling speed
It has. Then BL-6 plans were edited by Ern Rubik, Márton Pap,With the help of József Szeged (based on experience with Gerlék), he has a stronger engine. That's how Harry was born? which has also proved to be an excellent school machine and has been successful on several international tours. Machine data: f: 9.5 m h: 6.8 m, m: 2.7 m, F: 23.3 m?, Gu: 605 kg, Gr: 905 kg, Smax: 170 km / h, Sut: 145 km / h
Slesz: 70 km / h. Engine: WM SH.14 140 HP. Signal HA-RIS.

-EM-31, "Kotlós"and EM-32"Kóbor ". The four-seat two-engine horsepower and two-seater 40 HP were also developed, but were no longer completed. Currently, there are no detailed data for the latter two machines. available.

Click to expand...

From RAF Flying Review 1963'05-V18N09

Whiterabbit72 said:

From RAF Flying Review 1963'05-V18N09

Click to expand...

Interesting. I have the M-24 as the 1938 Courier. Its 1940 M-25 development was the Nebuló.

I've made a few changes and updates to the MSrE designation list (reply #2).

Mainly, I took the opportunity to flesh out the Gerlé section. But I have also rationalized the spelling of Thoroczkay throughout (as noted, both Thorotzkai and Thorotzkay are acceptable alternatives but gróf Thoroczkay himself went by the latter spelling).